71. Parenting, Back to School, and Prioritizing Rest with Ali Ryan
Many women unconditionally believe that their role is to serve others. If this belief persists and applies when we choose to become parents, this leaves even less time for us to focus on our own needs. We mistakenly believe that rest has to be earned and that we will be worthy of rest when everybody else is taken care of. But rest is a basic human need, we need it for survival. So why are so many of us not prioritizing it? This week’s guest joins me to explore this question further.
Ali Ryan is a conscious parenting life coach who primarily helps parents get intentional about how they want to parent. A parent herself, she knows how difficult it can be to prioritize rest, but she joins me this week to share why it is so important, and why we should all be prioritizing it.
Whether you’re a parent to younger or older kids, a single parent, or even if you’re not a parent at all, Ali is sharing some tips and tools that will help you get more rest in your life. We talk about the deeply conditioned patterns that so many people have around rest, some of the biggest challenges parents face when it comes to rest, and how taking care of yourself will enable you to take better care of others.
If you want to take this work deeper and learn the tools and skills to feel better, all while having my support and guidance each step of the way, I invite you to set up a time to chat with me. Click here to grab a spot on my calendar and I can’t wait to speak to you!
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What You Will Discover:
Why you have to be intentional about creating rest in your life.
How you could be modelling to your children that they are not worthy of rest.
Why you are not a failure if you ask for help.
How to stop thinking about what you should be doing and start thinking about what you want to be doing.
Some ways you can start prioritizing rest and supporting yourself through transitions in your parenting.
What the arrival fallacy is and where it might be showing up in your life.
Some of the tiny shifts you could make today to start getting more rest.
Resources:
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Full Episode Transcript:
Hey you all, I’m Marissa McKool, and you’re listening to the Redefining Rest Podcast for public health professionals. Here we believe rest is your right. You don’t have to earn it, you just have to learn how to take it and I’m going to teach you. Ready? Come along.
Hi you all, what is up? Today I have a very, very special guest, I’m going to make this intro brief so we can just get into it because it’s such a good episode. But my colleague, one of my best friends, Ali Ryan who’s a parenting coach is on the show today and we talk about all things related to getting rest as a parent, no matter if you’re a parent to young kids, or older kids, or you’re a single parent or whatever your situation is, how you can get rest and what are some of the challenges that you face getting rest.
She has such amazing insights. She is a parent herself. Now, if you don’t have kids and never want kids, don’t exit, don’t hit pause, don’t jump to another podcast, because this is still going to help you. We talk about the ways in which the thought patterns that prevent rest in parenting are very similar in other areas like work or family that isn’t kids. And Ali and I did a podcast with our coach a couple months ago and my younger sister who doesn’t have kids texted me and said, “Oh my gosh, Ali’s insights, what she shared was so, so helpful.”
So, I encourage you even if you don’t have kids to still tune in because I guarantee you you’re going to learn something and it’s going to help you get more rest, make decisions to rest and prioritize yourself. So, with that let’s get into the episode.
Marissa: Aright everyone, I have a very, very special guest who happens to be one of my best friends who I met on the internet by the way. And we’ve only hung out in person once but she’s still one of my best friends so we text almost every day. So, you can make friends on the internet. There are obviously bad people on the internet too, but you can. So anyways, Ali, do you want to introduce yourself to everyone?
Ali: Yes, I would love to. My name is Ali, I am a conscious parenting life coach. Like Marissa said, we did meet on the internet a couple of years ago through an online coaching program that we were both in. And also, we’re in our coaching certification program together and have grown so much. I primarily help parents get intentional about how they want to parent. My catch line is I help parents stop hating their kids. And really what that means is we have a lot of negative emotions that come up when we’re parenting.
And we often believe that they come from our kids and the reality is they come from ourselves. And so, it’s really fun to help parents kind of get clear on that and stop blaming our kids for their unhappiness and start taking accountability.
Marissa: I know a lot of parents listening are like, “Wait. What? What?”
Ali: Excuse me.
Marissa: How rude. Also, another important qualification is that you are a parent.
Ali: I also am a parent. I have a 16 year old, a 13 year and an almost nine year old.
Marissa: Wow. And everyone, I mean most folks who are listening are in public health or an adjacent field. And Ali is a nurse or was a nurse, are you still working?
Ali: Yeah. So that’s a whole other thing that we have in common. I am still working as a nurse. I’m doing more admin part-time stuff right now. I stepped out of leadership last year to pursue coaching full-time. And before that really focused on elder and end of life care, was also doing a lot of case management in the same kind of way, really coaching families through their loved ones’ rehab stay or their end of life type of progress. Yeah, I have quite a history in that and it’s been nice to sort of shift that into parenting.
Marissa: Yeah. So, here’s the point, she’s worked in a helping profession, a sector of it which is largely can be overlooked or underappreciated. And a parent and has dealt with all the stressors all of you are dealing with. And the truth is, if you all could see me and Ali’s text messages to each other, just because we’re coaches, we’re not exempt from the stress of life. And our coaches say to us all the time, “Yeah, right, you have it all together.” But it’s true, we’re always like, “Can you coach me on this? Oh my gosh.” And yeah, we’re humans just like you all.
Ali: Yes. So much, it’s true. We do text every day and it’s so wonderful to have that relationship with you where I can share literally I think the thoughts that I have are the circumstance. And so, it’s so much fun to even as a coach, to have this realization all the time of I’m still a human.
Marissa: I mean and even before either of us became a coach, just funny because we’ve done all our certifications together. Now we’re just a little…
Ali: But not on purpose. It’s not like we planned it, we were like, “Okay, let’s do this one this year and this one the next year.”
Marissa: No, we could do that [inaudible]. How we met originally was a kind of online group coaching where there was a lot of peer support. And I’ve talked about this before on the podcast. My roommate, my old roommate also was learning about thought work and stuff. So, we would also peer coach informally with each other. So those of you listening, even though you’re not a coach, if you have friends you have shared this podcast with, or other folks, your colleagues or your community who are also thinking about this type of stuff. You can get that support that way too.
Ali: I love that so much. It’s something I talk to parents a lot about too. And even my colleagues at work, finding people you can talk to in a safe way is so important. Community is so important.
Marissa: Yeah, and it’s different than venting. In public health, listen, I know, [crosstalk], we vent all the time. It’s very different than being like, “Hey, let’s do a little thought work reflection here.”
Ali: I think even just offering perspective, right?
Marissa: Yeah, definitely. So, the reason I asked Ali to come on is I’ve been thinking a lot about obviously rest, that’s what this whole podcast is about. But specifically for different folks in our podcast community and our Redefining Rest community. And one area I was really thinking about was parents. I’m not a parent but I have a lot of my friends who are parents and my clients. And I just wanted to have a conversation about thinking about rest in the context of parenting, whether you’re a new parent or you have older children.
Whether you’re working full-time, or a stay at home parent, whatever it may be. So just to start off, Ali, I’d love to hear your thoughts from your personal experience or experience with your clients about what are some of the biggest challenges parents have with first getting rest, let alone experiencing rest when they do take it?
Ali: I have so much to day personally and with the clients that I coach. So, I think one of the biggest challenges is just allowing themselves to do it. So frequently it’s like we step into this mindset where not only are we not allowed but then we believe. It’s like this thought error that rest is not productive. And so, it becomes this cycle that we get in of I’m so tired, I need to rest, but I’m not allowed to.
And then we follow that path and as time goes on it turns into we forget that there is an alternative to what we are doing which is just going, going, going, going, which is completely unsustainable and sometimes can last for years, and years, and years.
Marissa: Yeah. And I want to just note what you said about, I see this a lot with, well, I think a lot of folks because we’re in toxic productivity culture around, well, rest isn’t productive. Or I can only rest if it is productive, or I’ll rest because I know I can get that report done tomorrow. Or I’ll let myself rest because then tomorrow I can do x, y and z with the kids. And I just want us to pause and just think about the absurdity of that. Not that you have that thought because we all do, we’re socialized to.
But just we’re so attached to this belief that as humans we have to be productive as if we’re machines. We then apply that to rest which is a human need.
Ali: It’s survival. It’s literally how our brain decompresses and grows. And think of all the rest that your kids need or even if you can think back to when you were a teenager and how much you slept. Your body needs it, it’s just a necessity for that. Here’s another thing that I have thought about and you have shown me so much about this is rest is not just let’s just lay – sometimes can be let’s just lay on the couch and do nothing. Sometimes it looks like going for a really hard hike.
Sometimes it looks like cleaning out your garage so you’re not bombarded with that stuff every time you walk in. Sometimes it looks like sharing duties with cleaning and the kitchen afterwards. It can look so many different ways. I think that’s also a part of it is we have this very narrow definition of what rest is.
Marissa: Totally. So, thinking about people who have children, what are the specific things that in their mind are reasons because they’re a parent or because they have kids that they cannot rest, that they tell themselves at least?
Ali: This is so fascinating, this is something that I’m seeing more and more with clients and it is so often it’s this deep conditioning that comes from childhood. And if you think about sort of our generation, I coach a lot of people that are in their 30s and early 40s. So, you think of their parents and the way that they modeled parenting to them, so much of it was work hard, play hard, productivity, being how we derive our worth and our love. And seeing their parents cleaning all the time, that second shift type of thing.
So, a lot of it is very deep conditioning. They don’t necessarily like that they can’t slow down or do stuff for themselves. It is just this repeating of a pattern that they don’t honestly even give a second thought to which is they know they’re unhappy, they can’t really get to the reason why. And those patterns, they’re so deeply conditioned in the brain. This mindset too that I’ve been noticing of rest equals laziness or a moral flaw.
I’ve been seeing that more and more of again, just this deep conditioning of if my house isn’t clean, if my kids aren’t perfectly taken care of then I don’t deserve my own basic needs which makes me really sad. Because also it makes me think of where I was a lot when I was a lot younger. And so much of it was I’ll take care of me when the kids are older. I’ll take care of me when the kids are, it’s so backwards because I really, if I’m being honest with myself, I’m not that good of a parent if I’m not taking care of myself. It’s backwards.
We have to really take care of ourselves and same with public health, this is I think why we have such great conversations is there’s so much overlap of when you are in a helping profession whether it’s a parent, or CBC, or nursing, whatever. If you’re not taking care of yourself how can you really be taking care of others? You can’t.
Marissa: Yeah. And I do think it is, when you do work in a helping profession you are kind of socialized to believe your role is to just serve others. Also, if you’re socialized as a woman, you’re socialized to believe that too.
Ali: Yes, multiple layers.
Marissa: Right. And then you become a parent and you’re socialized as a parent especially as a mother to always give to your children, never give to yourself. So, you’re right, there is all these layers of conditioning of put myself last. And the other thing you mentioned about kind of the modeling from our parents or our clients parents is, let’s think about that time period.
How that makes sense that that was our parents’ experience is maybe it was kind of right after one of the major social shifts where a lot more people were going to college, a lot more people had access to college, whether it’s folks who are socialized as women, or immigrants, or folks of color. And so, this access to higher education and then the workforce shifted everything. But then social policies weren’t put in place in the US to then support families who have two working parents and childcare or parental leave or whatnot.
So, this pressure to still be the perfect employee, or student so we can still have access to that space so we can prove we ‘deserve it’. But then we’re still socialized to believe at home and with our kids, it all has to be perfect too.
Ali: Absolutely. And you’re touching on again these layers of the social change that we see along with people having more access of different demographics, having access to higher education. Moving into that but also again that pressure. And so much of it was – I was reading a couple of weeks ago, people used to lie about having kids because there was such discrimination. And so, it’s funny even just to think of that shame that came around having kids in the workplace.
They didn’t share it because they were at risk of not getting the job, or if they became pregnant, at risk of getting fired, or not getting their job back. And so, it’s really interesting when you start to think about what plays into these pressures that people felt even just a couple of decades ago. And still to this day are feeling, it’s just I think this modeling that has followed with generations of we work hard as women. That’s I think what we are conditioned to believe that makes us valuable.
And then we go home and we continue to work, and what about all the things that need to happen, at work, at home. We just layer that on. And it’s this assumption that women are supposed to take on all of these duties. And I just want to say as a feminist, there is a lot of duties that I do at home. But I have had that intentional conversation with my partner around that. I think so often, like when I was younger in a different marriage, I did not have that conversation. I just thought that was my job and was wondering, why am I so angry and pissed off?
Well, obviously there’s a lot of reasons that go into that. But so much of it is we just take on these duties and they’re not necessarily ours to take on. We think it’s supposed to be us but wrong.
Marissa: Right, yeah. And I do think again the layers of being conditioned to believe your role is to serve others. And I think a lot of times if you work in public health or if you’re a parent, whether you’re socialized or you truly want to, there is this, “Well, I like to do it. I like helping people.” And I think that can be tricky of it can be true that you enjoy it but you also need a break and you need to give yourself some rest. And I do think if you have a partner, if you’re raising kids with a partner, then those conversations can be really hard to bring up, and initiate, and negotiate.
And if you don’t have a partner and you’re raising kids then there is a whole other set of making decisions for yourself. Is it that I’m going to spend money to get support? Is it that I’m just going to choose not to do certain things to give myself rest? There is a lot of decision making but I just find a lot of people don’t even let themselves go there. They don’t even get that far.
Ali: No, absolutely not. What I often just see is people believe, truly believe that there is no other alternative to whatever they’re living which is, it can be a whole number of things. And then they develop this really narrow view of themselves as the helper or as the person that does everything. Sometimes that adds that victim mentality or that martyr mentality that I know I used to struggle with. And then they also view their kids in that way too in that really narrow way because if we’re viewing ourselves in a really narrow mindset, we’re also our viewing our kids in a really narrow mindset.
Which can then be detrimental for everybody especially in terms of what we’re modelling for our humans.
Marissa: Yeah. So, let’s think about for folks who have children, for parents. What are some ways that they could start thinking, they might not have even thought of ways for them to get rest. One example, I shared this yesterday on my social media and you kind of just touched on it. My partner and I, we don’t have kids. But we have conversations about sharing duties. And I think equality and equity are different. It doesn’t mean we do everything equally but we try to have equity with cooking, with cleaning, with walking our dog.
And sometimes its unbalanced but we consciously have that conversation and it gives us both rest. So, what are some other examples for folks who are parents or have kids that that might be?
Ali: Yeah, absolutely. So, what you’re touching on is just creating that awareness. You’re not creating, like you said, equality or equity but at least just creating that awareness I think is that first step which is something that I really like to do with my clients. When they believe there’s no other alternative, creating that awareness of did you know there’s other potential options? I love people’s faces when they’re just like, “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” And then it’s like, “Wait, maybe there are other options.” So, creating awareness is huge.
One think I thing I think a lot about is how challenging it can be to ask for help. I think part of it is we again, we live in a society, well, it’s just this hyper independence. So then when you think of someone who’s been socialized as a woman and then has added the role of mom, and then added maybe some helping profession. There’s so many layers there, of I should be able to do all this on my own and if I’m not then I’m a failure which is so wrong. It’s not true.
But this becomes again this narrow mindset that people get in of if I ask for help then I’m a failure. And that’s not true, so I think asking for help or even just thinking about what would it be like to ask for help and being okay with that maybe being a little bit uncomfortable. Something I think about a lot too is, I talk to my clients a lot about is tapping into your authentic desire. And what I mean by that is stop thinking, even just suspend this for a moment, stop thinking about what you should be doing and start thinking about what you want to be doing.
It doesn’t mean you have to take action right that moment but we so often just get into this obligation type of mindset where we have to, have to, have to. What if you didn’t have to do anything in that moment? Just try it on for a second, it’s just like trying on a dress. And just see how that feels, just see how that pressure lifts.
Marissa: Right. What if you didn’t have to have a clean house all the time? What if you didn’t have to make dinner from scratch every night? Asking for help I think is really uncomfortable, and whether it’s asking your partner, or maybe asking a family member, or a friend to babysit. And maybe that’s something you explore and they say no or you’re not comfortable then it’s like, okay, how can you help yourself? Maybe it’s, you know what, I’m just going to learn to be okay with maybe buying frozen meals every once in a while.
Or I’m going to learn to be okay with not really having a clean home even if my kids invite their friends over or something. And that can be really uncomfortable.
Ali: For sure but I think again it comes down to models. I know for when I was a kid my mom did not ever want to have guests over because she said our house wasn’t clean enough.
Marissa: Yeah, oh my gosh, my mom too.
Ali: Yeah, [crosstalk].
Marissa: I mean it’s almost like – I mean and then I picked this up too, this compulsion for everything to always be perfect and clean. And I have done a lot of work to detach from that.
Ali: Same, absolutely. I don’t know about you but I had to address that because I was becoming such a miserable person and this taskmaster that I didn’t like. Because it was like, again, I was carrying modeling from a kid of the house has to look a certain way, you have to put all your stuff in a specific place. And I was becoming such a rigid person with this type of control that I was holding onto that I wasn’t happy. I was unhappy and no one else was happy in the house either.
And so really getting clear about why am I perpetuating this pattern? Why does this matter so much to me? If it’s because of how other people are going to judge you or how you’re going to judge you I think it’s worth taking a look at. If you simply love cleaning the house and it just brings you so much happiness and if you’re not doing it as a buffering activity, or you’re not vengeance cleaning to show your partner how much more you’re doing than someone else. Okay, fine, if it’s coming from a clean place.
But I think it’s really important to look at what can you control and what can you not control and even in that moment of just looking at where can you make a difference whether for yourself, or how you’re feeling, or in your home and what can you not. Even just that alone can be this really huge awareness of I’m holding onto so much that I have no control over.
Marissa: Yeah, definitely. And if you’re comfortable I’d love for you to share the example you shared when we were chatting with our coach, Kara. What I saw when you said this, I was like, “That is such rest that you give yourself.” About the pants with your child, about leggings.
Ali: Yes. So, a little bit of a backstory. I have ADHD. I am neurodivergent, all of my kids are as well. So, it’s been a journey of creative solutions. And what that has meant is if I am in a stress mindset I am not thinking creatively. I am not thinking curiously about how to solve problems. So, one of my kiddos several years ago, every single morning it was a struggle to get to school and it was always something like hair, wanting to wear the same outfit multiple times in a week, lots of things.
So, it became this, I got curious, what can we do here to make mornings a little bit easier? And one of them is she wanted to wear these tie dyed pants every day, she loved them. Also totally legit, they had drawstrings to make them tighter and there were pockets. And her biggest thing was just like there’s not enough pants with pockets in the world, which I agree with.
So instead of deciding to put more work on myself by washing the pants every day, instead of creating this ridiculous rule that she had to change clothes every day, or wear something different every day. I just bought multiple pairs of the same pants, so much of the stress was gone because there was no more fight.
Marissa: Right. Because you’re like, I know they want to wear this, we bought multiple, wear it every day, no more fighting over it.
Ali: No more fighting over it. Now, then it became, what are we going to really – choosing battles. I think that’s such a huge thing. I don’t even like to use the word ‘battles’, but just choose what you’re going to spend your energy on. Is it really going to matter if they brush their hair or not? I mean I care but do they care?
Marissa: Right. And I think talking about this, that is part of, that can be restful being like, “Okay, I’m going to not put so much energy into these spaces.” At least for now, you can always change. And it’s personal, it’s person-to-person. If you feel like, hey, I can’t send my kid to school without their hair brushed and looking a certain way because we might be discriminated against or they might be treated differently because of their identity. That is totally understandable and you get to make that choice.
But there is another way you can choose to reduce your energy somewhere else, maybe it’s in the home and not making scratch made meals or something. So, we’re not saying you have to do it this way. But just think about the ways in which you’re spending all of your energy and where you could kind of reduce it a little bit to get that energy back for yourself mentally and emotionally.
Ali: 100%, just again, like you said, I totally understand coming from, like being a white person there is a lot of privilege. I think there’s not a lot of discrimination in that sense. There is discrimination in other ways, like I said the neurodivergence and the struggles that my kids have had in that way. But it’s person to person and I think that’s what’s so important to remember as far as parenting goes. This is I think a piece of the taking care of elders that has really been wonderful for kids.
So much of what I was a proponent of and a leader in, in my career was person centered care. Every person needs a different type of way that they’re being cared for. And it’s the same for kids and it’s the same for us. So again, that comes to what they need as far as love, and care, and also rest. It looks very different for each person. And so, it’s going to be very subjective for every single family and individual.
Marissa: Right. And this is the other thing I’d love parents to think about is think about what you picked up from the modeling your parents particularly, if you had a mother, your mother around resting. For me I definitely did not pick up habits of rest, I picked up habits of busyness, and being overwhelmed, and ideals of perfectionism. And so that makes sense, we pick up stuff our parents modeled, it’s not blaming our parents.
But you choosing to rest, even imperfect rest and what that means for you is modeling for your kids that they can give themselves permission to rest too as they get older and become adults and all that.
Ali: This is such an important topic that I have been thinking about so much. And one of the reasons I’m so passionate with parent coaching is we model, what we do we’re modeling for our children. So even if we’re not saying, “I don’t deserve rest”, our actions are still showing that. And our kids are so perceptive. They see what we’re doing and not doing. They pick up those cues and they will learn them. And so, so much of parenting and how we care for ourselves is really, are you willing to model that for your children?
And that comes to rest, that comes to the way you talk to yourself, that comes to the way that you treat your home. I think so much of it is are you willing to do for yourself what you want your kids to do for themselves? And also, it just looks kind of hypocritical and double standard, and kids also pick up on that.
Marissa: Yeah. And I think that happens a lot in the workplace too of folks who I work with who are supervisors, who are championing their staff, or even their colleagues to take rest, take days off, not work when they’re sick but then they’re not doing that. And that makes sense, it’s so much easier for us to champion someone else and support someone else than ourselves because we’re raised to be hypercritical of ourselves and hold ourselves to this unattainable extreme perfectionistic standard.
So, we all have that experience but that is where the work is of really centering yourself and deciding for you right now, what would be restful for you in the circumstances you’re in, whether that’s you’re a single parent, whether that’s you live in a multigenerational home. And your parents, or your aunt and uncle live with you, and there’s a lot of people. And it’s different family to family, person to person.
Ali: Absolutely. And I love what you’re saying around this happens all the time especially like you’re saying, parent, child, supervisor and staff where they’re messaging something different than they are doing. And yes, it’s easier. I know even as coaches we talk about this of it’s easy to send the message that we want. But to take that on is really where the work is but I think that’s really, to me that’s so much of what integrity is and being honest about where you’re at in the journey.
I sometimes, not sometimes, I am very honest with my kids. And there is a lot of accountability around that of I’m having trouble resting, I’m having trouble, just acknowledging, I’m feeling some stress around the stuff that’s everywhere. Can you please help me pick up so we can all rest? It’s sharing in that, I call it burden sharing. It’s such an important thing and again it can look so different in every single home. But so important just to think about where are you stuck? Where do you see that you can make that tiny shift? And that’s where that work is.
Marissa: Yeah. And it is really about these tiny shifts. It’s not about overnight becoming perfect at this. It’s just like what is one thing you could do today that would be restful for you? And maybe what it is today is different than next week. Maybe it’s different than your partner or your friend. But what is that one thing? Is it ordering takeout? Is it spending time meal prepping? Is it taking a nap? Is it letting the toys be out? Is it letting your kid decide what they’re going to wear? There are a million things, it’s what is it for you? You can only decide that.
Ali: Yes, absolutely. And I always love to think about, am I doing this for myself or am I doing this so that people think a certain thing about me? And speaking of going back to school, I know this has been something that I’ve had to work on a lot. I feel like the beginning of school and new clothes kind of go together. It’s a new school year, we’re supposed to get new clothes. Okay, the reality is it it’s still summertime at least where I live in Colorado, it’s still summertime. It’s still quite warm when we go back to school, when the kids go back in August.
My kids are still wearing their summer clothes, they do not need all of the fall, winter stuff that is in the stores. Think about what the reason is for if you’re going school shopping, do they really need it or do you just want the appearance of your family to be a certain way? This is so important. So, one thing that I’ve done to really increase rest at least in this way is I buy my kids’ clothes when they need them. It’s not just like it’s new school year, you get a whole new wardrobe. That’s so wasteful. And also, they don’t even wear the stuff that’s in the stores because it’s winter stuff.
So, it’s just little things like that of what works for my family obviously looks very different for each person. But I think that’s such an important thing of just like are you doing this for others or are you doing it for yourself?
Marissa: Right. And it is personal. For someone else, taking their kids to go shopping for new stuff, that might actually be restful, maybe they really get joy from that. But discerning that is a skill you have to practice. I’m still working on it. And who am I doing this for? Because there’s a lot of unconscious beliefs or ways our brains try to trick us. But I’m so glad you brought this up because this, it is about the time, people’s kids are going back to school, and I think a lot of parents, correct me if I’m wrong.
But my experience with folks is it’s like, yes, kids are going to be back in school, I’m finally going to be able to rest, the exhaustion from summer. And then a couple of weeks go by and it’s like, wait, I don’t feel rested, I’m still just as exhausted. And then it’s like, well, winter break, when’s winter break? Then I’ll feel right. And it’s like the cycle throughout the whole year of just I’ll rest in the future and then you never rest. What is that about?
Ali: Okay. Well, this is really funny. Well, first of all it’s called the arrival fallacy. I was actually searching about this the other day because I struggle with this. So, arrival fallacy is basically the lie that we tell ourselves that we will feel a certain way when, fill in the blank. So, I know for me I recently moved and I kept running into this, I’ll be able to rest when all the boxes are unpacked. I’ll be able to feel peace when everything is organized. And it was just the subconscious thing that I was just putting off my relaxation and my rest because slowing down equaled probably being lazy.
I still struggle with this stuff. And I realized I can feel peace now even if those boxes aren’t unpacked. And so, I think that parents and I’ve definitely struggled with this when the kids were younger and I still do where it’s like we put that rest or that relaxation in the future tense but we never get to it because we just create this future scenario, somehow I’m going to be happy when. Okay, no, so realizing that’s a lie. You have to be intentional and you have to create it now.
Marissa: Yeah, you create it for yourself and that’s the other thing is I think what happens is, this idea of once the kids go back to school I’ll be able to rest. But then you don’t plan it, you don’t schedule it so where does that rest come from? Does it just magically appear? You have to prioritize it. You have to be like, okay, they’re back in school so I’m going to block off time in my calendar once a week to go, I don’t know, go to take a class, or go on a walk, or whatnot. You have to prioritize it. It’s not going to just happen to you.
Ali: No, it’s not magic. And I think so much of it is, well, what is the same? It’s still the thoughts that are not shifting. And I think so much of it comes down to it’s not the circumstance of your kids going back to school that create more rest. It’s your thoughts about rest or your thoughts about how you care for yourself that need to change.
I always view beginning of school, I used to do this of the beginning of the school year almost used to be like New Year’s resolution kind of the equivalent of this year we’re going to have that mega calendar that has all the color codes for what everybody needs. And this year I’m going to have all those, you know, everyone’s going to have color coded backpack hangers. And this year is going to be the year of the school lunches.
And it’s like all these perfectionist fantasies, but it’s just like with New Year’s resolutions where a couple of weeks in I fizzle out because I’m creating this really unrealistic expectation of myself. And then I’m being kind of shitty to myself because it’s like, I knew I’m not good at organizing. So, it’s just validating the thing that I’m insecure about. What if you decide you want to be a little bit more organized? You take one little step today to do that.
Marissa: Right, yeah. And for those of you who maybe you have younger children who aren’t in school yet. Your brain’s probably like, well, once my kid does go to preschool, once they do go to kindergarten then I’ll rest. It’s the same thing for you, it is about the decisions you make and what you think no matter if your kid is still in diapers, or in school, or in high school, or whatnot. It’s your choices, what you chose to do. And it’s true, through the phases of your life as a parent and your kids’ life obviously it’s going to change what rest looks like for you.
But yeah, the idea that at some point in the future it’ll be perfect, or this year will be perfect. That’s just setting yourself up to really not feel good.
Ali: Yeah. And I almost feel like we’re giving this bomb of truth of no, sorry, that’s not going to work. But I think it’s really important to be honest with folks about if you put off that time for yourself, it’s not just going to magically come because you’re going to then fill it. You’re always going to fill it with other things. There is always things you can be doing. And so, you have to be really intentional about that time. And I think it is hard for parents, when your kids are first born you are responsible for a lot of their care.
They literally do need you to survive as far as food, and changing their diapers, and cleanliness, and holding them, and soothing them. And then it feels like forever, even though it’s just a couple of months or a couple of years, they’re no longer depending on you in the same ways. But we still have that same mindset of that we’re responsible for everything.
And again, it's like what I mentioned earlier of that very narrow mindset that we can get into and realizing being flexible around what our kids are needing, being flexible around what we are needing, and around what the needs are so important. Because they change, we change as humans all the time. [Crosstalk] and that means just the type of support that we need and our kids need is going to shift over time. And that’s okay, that’s a good thing.
Marissa: Yeah. And even on a smaller scale, even thinking about going back to school, that is a transition, that is a shift in everyone’s schedule and everyone’s priorities. So, during those big transitions, you just went through a move, that can be one, changing schools can be one, winter break, summer break going back to school. What are some ways folks listening can really think about making this transition not perfect, not the smoothest but prioritizing rest and supporting themselves through that transition?
Ali: I have three things. So, the first thing is I’m going to list them and then I’m going to talk more about them. So, the first one is collaboration. Number two, plan imperfectly. Number three, releasing attachment. So, number one with collaboration, collaborate with your kids. What are their goals? What are their expectations? What do they want? Share with your kids, what are your goals, what are your expectations.
Share with your partner, what are their goals? Have a conversation with your family and see what everybody is wanting with that specific timeframe, with that transition. See where there’s overlaps and how everyone can support one another.
Marissa: I love that and if you don’t have a partner you can still just do it with your kids, it will still make an impact, no matter how old the kids are, even if your kid’s five.
Ali: Yes, absolutely. Let me just share. I am in a cohabitating situation with my partner now but I was a single parent for five, six years. And we had family meetings about this exact same thing. So, you do not necessarily need another partner to do this. Really the conversation is with the people in your family. I love using those terms.
Marissa: Yeah, whatever your family is, whether you have multiple partners or multigenerational, you have parents, or aunts and uncles, yeah, totally.
Ali: Yeah. But collaboration, sharing what you’re wanting. Nobody’s a mind reader. Your kid might not even know what they’re wanting from this time. But asking them is so huge, then we can start to share, we can get curious, we can see how we can creatively problem solve by kind of planning ahead of well, what are you wanting from this winter break or this beginning of the school year? How do you want to feel about this? And seeing how we can support one another and that is so huge.
Marissa: Totally, I love that.
Ali: Number two, plan imperfectly. I think so often we believe that if we have the most tight schedule with everything on the calendar then everything’s going to go just fine. Okay, let’s be real, that’s not what makes our lives less stressful. Sure, planning can help but if we are so attached to everything happening in that very specific timeframe then we’re kind of setting ourselves up to be miserable. Really any time we’re going to be planning with a lot of rigidity or no flexibility, things are going to come up. That’s just how life works.
And you have kids which means they are sometimes on their own time zones which is [crosstalk].
Marissa: I love that, kids are on their time zones.
Ali: So, one thing that I have really worked to do is to create buffer zones for time. And what that means is I am not creating this back to back type of schedule. I’m giving a lot of extra time, more than I think I need. And that’s just something that I think I struggle with because of ADHD of sometimes I think something just takes five minutes. It’s either five minutes or it’s going to take the rest of my life, therefore I’m not going to do it. So, I’ve had to put a lot of work into being a lot more realistic about how much time something will take.
And it has just created so much more maybe just talking about it, so much more freedom and liberation to move from item to item in the to-do list without it feeling like this back to back thing, or feeling like I’m behind. Because I’m just creating so much more time in the [crosstalk].
Marissa: Right. And the truth is we get it wrong, we do [crosstalk] and that’s okay. And the other thing I’ll say is if you’re listening and you’re not a parent but you’re in school, you’re in grad school, same thing. Same thing could apply to your schedule. And also, here’s the other thing I hear a lot. We do schedule and plan all of our to-do’s and chores. We do not schedule our rest. So even during a period of transition, if you’re building a calendar or scheduling what needs to be done, your list of to-do’s before school starts or as school starts. Put things of rest on there too.
Ali: Yes, absolutely. It’s so important. And again, be creative about what that type of rest looks like to you. One thing that I also was thinking as we were talking is just know ahead of time that in transition times, there might be a little bit more stress. And just be okay with that. And it’s work, it’s work to be okay with it. But I think knowing ahead of your time, planning, telling your brain this is going to be a time where there is going to be some transition and we might be a little stressed and we might forget something, makes such a huge difference.
I think so often we give ourselves these very unrealistic expectations of how we need to be and behave, or else we’re failures. What if making mistakes was just what it was? What if there’s no blame or shame? It just is during transitions, we’re adjusting to new times or new schedules and [crosstalk] mistakes.
Marissa: Right. I always say, when I know I’m going to have a busy week or period, I just remind myself, I’m definitely going to drop the ball. That’s okay.
Ali: [Crosstalk].
Marissa: No, you can totally guess. There’s definitely something I’m going to miss or forget and that’s okay. Just expect that so then you don’t freak out when it happens because it’s going to happen.
Ali: Yes, I think that’s so huge. I’m definitely going to be a human a lot. And then yeah, releasing attachment to a specific outcome. Any time that we are holding ourselves or creating this very specific outcome of what something needs to look like, we are then not being present with what actually is. And I think this is such a huge piece that leads to just kind of a bigger pattern of when we’re not being present that means we’re not paying attention to what’s happening.
And I think letting go of what something needs to look like and just being present with this is the goal, this is what I want but also I recognize other things can happen here, allows you to be a human and allows your kids to be human. It allows for so much more just compassion and gentleness throughout the whole, well, the whole journey but really just the whole transition period of just letting people be who they are without again, putting them in that narrow box and labeling that mindset which I want to say our brains are trained to do that.
Our brains want to judge. Our brains want to label. Our brains want to have that patterning and that very neat box. But actually, none of us like being put in a box and labeled. Our kids don’t like that either. And so, releasing that is a practice but so much liberation on the other side of releasing that.
Marissa: Totally. And then remind me step three, detaching, not attaching?
Ali: Yeah, just releasing attachment to a specific outcome was kind of just what I went over. I was like, if you recognize that you are just really attached, just something looking a certain way, get curious about why. Why does it need to look a certain way? What am I hoping I will feel if it looks a certain way? What am I afraid of feeling if it goes [crosstalk].
Marissa: I mean that can even have an after the fact, my brain still does this where I do something and then my brain just goes over, and over, and over to it didn’t go well, didn’t go the way I wanted, I should have done this. And then it’s so much energy is wasted doing that.
Ali: So much energy is wasted. And I think what I see with parents is it becomes this bigger pattern of, when we’re spending so much energy thinking about how things went wrong, we are not putting any energy into what went right, what went well. How did we do something well. What are our kids doing that is actually really amazing? When we only focus on the negative, that’s all that we see in ourselves and our children. And it does impact over time our relationships with ourselves and our kids.
And really is sad, and I have to work on it too. It’s an intentional practice but I just think really what our brains pay attention to will grow. And that’s the positive or the negative.
Marissa: Right. I find this both in parenting but even in work, or if you’re at school. We do have this negativity bias, it’s evolutionary. Think about, everyone listening, whether you’re a parent or not, how much time your brain spends on focusing on all the things that it thinks you did wrong or could have done better. Rather than focusing on where you’re proud of yourself, where you’re really happy you showed up. And that can take some intentional work but it will create such a different emotional experience for you.
Ali: Yes. The funny thing is our brains don’t even offer that to us. Our brains don’t even think, what went well in that situation? It’s like what was terrible about that or what will be terrible about this? [Crosstalk] ourselves the option of, what if everything works out great?
Marissa: Listen you all, I texted Ali this week, I won’t give all the details but I was like, “My brain is telling me that either this is going to happen or this is going to happen.” Of course, it’s both negative and Ali was like, “Well what if it all turns out great?” And I was like, “My brain did not offer me that option, literally it didn’t.” I was like, “Whoa, what, it could go great?” Literally it blew my mind.
Ali: Yeah. Our brains are liars. And I just love to just think about this all the time of yeah, I mean and I was texting you the other day about my brain being like a raccoon in a trashcan trying to bring me thoughts that are well formed. And it’s like, no, it is a trash panda, they’re trying to bring me pieces of trash saying it’s pieces of revelatory truth. No.
Marissa: Yeah. Oh man, this is so good, Ali, and it will also help so many folks. Anything you want to share we didn’t touch on as we wrap up?
Ali: I think the only other thing that I want to add is I have really been practicing this piece of mindfulness. And it can look a lot of different ways for people. Personally, I do love meditation. I think that it has been this practice of again, just practicing, noticing instead of reacting. And so, whatever that looks like for people it just has made such a huge difference in my life of getting into that practice of just noticing without reacting.
And I just want to offer that to people of we do not have to respond with the first thing that comes in our head whatever that looks like. If it’s deep breath practices, if it’s just spending time in nature, deep breathing, if it’s just slowing down, whatever it takes just to slow down and to be safe in your body. And again, that’s a huge thing to land on the end of this podcast. But it's so huge of what would it take to just be a little bit more mindful in our actions throughout the day rather than just on that hamster wheel of going, going, going, going?
Marissa: Right. And it does look different. I know some people, meditation isn’t their thing and that’s fine. For me it’s thought downloads. When I become aware it’s like, okay, let me just put all my thoughts on paper and that helps me detach a little bit. And for others of you it might be maybe you have a gratitude journal, or maybe you do step away, whatever it is. So yeah, I do think that’s important no matter if you’re a parent or not.
Ali: Yeah, it doesn’t really matter. All of our nervous systems need that care and so whatever it looks like, find it, and go with it, enjoy it, you do not have to be living this mindset of just go, go, go, we can slow down. It is safe, it is okay. It’s actually revolutionary, crush the patriarchy kind of exercise.
Marissa: And toxic capitalism, toxic productivity which, yeah, I’m on a mission with that. Thanks so much, Ali. Tell everyone where they can find you if they want to get connected with you. And we’ll leave all the links of course in the show notes.
Ali: Yeah, absolutely. You can find me on Instagram at ali_ryan_coaching and that’s A-L-I_R-Y-A-N and then my website is aliryancoaching.com.
Marissa: Awesome. And we’ll have those links for everyone. Thanks so much for being here.
Ali: Thank you so much for having me, it was so good to talk with you.
Marissa: Yeah, you too. Alright, everyone, have a great week.
If you found this episode helpful then you have to check out my coaching program where I provide you individualized support to create a life centered around rest. Head on over to mckoolcoaching.com, that’s M-C-K-O-O-L coaching.com to learn more.
Hi you all, what is up? Today I have a very, very special guest, I’m going to make this intro brief so we can just get into it because it’s such a good episode. But my colleague, one of my best friends, Ali Ryan who’s a parenting coach is on the show today and we talk about all things related to getting rest as a parent, no matter if you’re a parent to young kids, or older kids, or you’re a single parent or whatever your situation is, how you can get rest and what are some of the challenges that you face getting rest.
She has such amazing insights. She is a parent herself. Now, if you don’t have kids and never want kids, don’t exit, don’t hit pause, don’t jump to another podcast, because this is still going to help you. We talk about the ways in which the thought patterns that prevent rest in parenting are very similar in other areas like work or family that isn’t kids. And Ali and I did a podcast with our coach a couple months ago and my younger sister who doesn’t have kids texted me and said, “Oh my gosh, Ali’s insights, what she shared was so, so helpful.”
So, I encourage you even if you don’t have kids to still tune in because I guarantee you you’re going to learn something and it’s going to help you get more rest, make decisions to rest and prioritize yourself. So, with that let’s get into the episode.
Marissa: Aright everyone, I have a very, very special guest who happens to be one of my best friends who I met on the internet by the way. And we’ve only hung out in person once but she’s still one of my best friends so we text almost every day. So, you can make friends on the internet. There are obviously bad people on the internet too, but you can. So anyways, Ali, do you want to introduce yourself to everyone?
Ali: Yes, I would love to. My name is Ali, I am a conscious parenting life coach. Like Marissa said, we did meet on the internet a couple of years ago through an online coaching program that we were both in. And also, we’re in our coaching certification program together and have grown so much. I primarily help parents get intentional about how they want to parent. My catch line is I help parents stop hating their kids. And really what that means is we have a lot of negative emotions that come up when we’re parenting.
And we often believe that they come from our kids and the reality is they come from ourselves. And so, it’s really fun to help parents kind of get clear on that and stop blaming our kids for their unhappiness and start taking accountability.
Marissa: I know a lot of parents listening are like, “Wait. What? What?”
Ali: Excuse me.
Marissa: How rude. Also, another important qualification is that you are a parent.
Ali: I also am a parent. I have a 16 year old, a 13 year and an almost nine year old.
Marissa: Wow. And everyone, I mean most folks who are listening are in public health or an adjacent field. And Ali is a nurse or was a nurse, are you still working?
Ali: Yeah. So that’s a whole other thing that we have in common. I am still working as a nurse. I’m doing more admin part-time stuff right now. I stepped out of leadership last year to pursue coaching full-time. And before that really focused on elder and end of life care, was also doing a lot of case management in the same kind of way, really coaching families through their loved ones’ rehab stay or their end of life type of progress. Yeah, I have quite a history in that and it’s been nice to sort of shift that into parenting.
Marissa: Yeah. So, here’s the point, she’s worked in a helping profession, a sector of it which is largely can be overlooked or underappreciated. And a parent and has dealt with all the stressors all of you are dealing with. And the truth is, if you all could see me and Ali’s text messages to each other, just because we’re coaches, we’re not exempt from the stress of life. And our coaches say to us all the time, “Yeah, right, you have it all together.” But it’s true, we’re always like, “Can you coach me on this? Oh my gosh.” And yeah, we’re humans just like you all.
Ali: Yes. So much, it’s true. We do text every day and it’s so wonderful to have that relationship with you where I can share literally I think the thoughts that I have are the circumstance. And so, it’s so much fun to even as a coach, to have this realization all the time of I’m still a human.
Marissa: I mean and even before either of us became a coach, just funny because we’ve done all our certifications together. Now we’re just a little…
Ali: But not on purpose. It’s not like we planned it, we were like, “Okay, let’s do this one this year and this one the next year.”
Marissa: No, we could do that [inaudible]. How we met originally was a kind of online group coaching where there was a lot of peer support. And I’ve talked about this before on the podcast. My roommate, my old roommate also was learning about thought work and stuff. So, we would also peer coach informally with each other. So those of you listening, even though you’re not a coach, if you have friends you have shared this podcast with, or other folks, your colleagues or your community who are also thinking about this type of stuff. You can get that support that way too.
Ali: I love that so much. It’s something I talk to parents a lot about too. And even my colleagues at work, finding people you can talk to in a safe way is so important. Community is so important.
Marissa: Yeah, and it’s different than venting. In public health, listen, I know, [crosstalk], we vent all the time. It’s very different than being like, “Hey, let’s do a little thought work reflection here.”
Ali: I think even just offering perspective, right?
Marissa: Yeah, definitely. So, the reason I asked Ali to come on is I’ve been thinking a lot about obviously rest, that’s what this whole podcast is about. But specifically for different folks in our podcast community and our Redefining Rest community. And one area I was really thinking about was parents. I’m not a parent but I have a lot of my friends who are parents and my clients. And I just wanted to have a conversation about thinking about rest in the context of parenting, whether you’re a new parent or you have older children.
Whether you’re working full-time, or a stay at home parent, whatever it may be. So just to start off, Ali, I’d love to hear your thoughts from your personal experience or experience with your clients about what are some of the biggest challenges parents have with first getting rest, let alone experiencing rest when they do take it?
Ali: I have so much to day personally and with the clients that I coach. So, I think one of the biggest challenges is just allowing themselves to do it. So frequently it’s like we step into this mindset where not only are we not allowed but then we believe. It’s like this thought error that rest is not productive. And so, it becomes this cycle that we get in of I’m so tired, I need to rest, but I’m not allowed to.
And then we follow that path and as time goes on it turns into we forget that there is an alternative to what we are doing which is just going, going, going, going, which is completely unsustainable and sometimes can last for years, and years, and years.
Marissa: Yeah. And I want to just note what you said about, I see this a lot with, well, I think a lot of folks because we’re in toxic productivity culture around, well, rest isn’t productive. Or I can only rest if it is productive, or I’ll rest because I know I can get that report done tomorrow. Or I’ll let myself rest because then tomorrow I can do x, y and z with the kids. And I just want us to pause and just think about the absurdity of that. Not that you have that thought because we all do, we’re socialized to.
But just we’re so attached to this belief that as humans we have to be productive as if we’re machines. We then apply that to rest which is a human need.
Ali: It’s survival. It’s literally how our brain decompresses and grows. And think of all the rest that your kids need or even if you can think back to when you were a teenager and how much you slept. Your body needs it, it’s just a necessity for that. Here’s another thing that I have thought about and you have shown me so much about this is rest is not just let’s just lay – sometimes can be let’s just lay on the couch and do nothing. Sometimes it looks like going for a really hard hike.
Sometimes it looks like cleaning out your garage so you’re not bombarded with that stuff every time you walk in. Sometimes it looks like sharing duties with cleaning and the kitchen afterwards. It can look so many different ways. I think that’s also a part of it is we have this very narrow definition of what rest is.
Marissa: Totally. So, thinking about people who have children, what are the specific things that in their mind are reasons because they’re a parent or because they have kids that they cannot rest, that they tell themselves at least?
Ali: This is so fascinating, this is something that I’m seeing more and more with clients and it is so often it’s this deep conditioning that comes from childhood. And if you think about sort of our generation, I coach a lot of people that are in their 30s and early 40s. So, you think of their parents and the way that they modeled parenting to them, so much of it was work hard, play hard, productivity, being how we derive our worth and our love. And seeing their parents cleaning all the time, that second shift type of thing.
So, a lot of it is very deep conditioning. They don’t necessarily like that they can’t slow down or do stuff for themselves. It is just this repeating of a pattern that they don’t honestly even give a second thought to which is they know they’re unhappy, they can’t really get to the reason why. And those patterns, they’re so deeply conditioned in the brain. This mindset too that I’ve been noticing of rest equals laziness or a moral flaw.
I’ve been seeing that more and more of again, just this deep conditioning of if my house isn’t clean, if my kids aren’t perfectly taken care of then I don’t deserve my own basic needs which makes me really sad. Because also it makes me think of where I was a lot when I was a lot younger. And so much of it was I’ll take care of me when the kids are older. I’ll take care of me when the kids are, it’s so backwards because I really, if I’m being honest with myself, I’m not that good of a parent if I’m not taking care of myself. It’s backwards.
We have to really take care of ourselves and same with public health, this is I think why we have such great conversations is there’s so much overlap of when you are in a helping profession whether it’s a parent, or CBC, or nursing, whatever. If you’re not taking care of yourself how can you really be taking care of others? You can’t.
Marissa: Yeah. And I do think it is, when you do work in a helping profession you are kind of socialized to believe your role is to just serve others. Also, if you’re socialized as a woman, you’re socialized to believe that too.
Ali: Yes, multiple layers.
Marissa: Right. And then you become a parent and you’re socialized as a parent especially as a mother to always give to your children, never give to yourself. So, you’re right, there is all these layers of conditioning of put myself last. And the other thing you mentioned about kind of the modeling from our parents or our clients parents is, let’s think about that time period.
How that makes sense that that was our parents’ experience is maybe it was kind of right after one of the major social shifts where a lot more people were going to college, a lot more people had access to college, whether it’s folks who are socialized as women, or immigrants, or folks of color. And so, this access to higher education and then the workforce shifted everything. But then social policies weren’t put in place in the US to then support families who have two working parents and childcare or parental leave or whatnot.
So, this pressure to still be the perfect employee, or student so we can still have access to that space so we can prove we ‘deserve it’. But then we’re still socialized to believe at home and with our kids, it all has to be perfect too.
Ali: Absolutely. And you’re touching on again these layers of the social change that we see along with people having more access of different demographics, having access to higher education. Moving into that but also again that pressure. And so much of it was – I was reading a couple of weeks ago, people used to lie about having kids because there was such discrimination. And so, it’s funny even just to think of that shame that came around having kids in the workplace.
They didn’t share it because they were at risk of not getting the job, or if they became pregnant, at risk of getting fired, or not getting their job back. And so, it’s really interesting when you start to think about what plays into these pressures that people felt even just a couple of decades ago. And still to this day are feeling, it’s just I think this modeling that has followed with generations of we work hard as women. That’s I think what we are conditioned to believe that makes us valuable.
And then we go home and we continue to work, and what about all the things that need to happen, at work, at home. We just layer that on. And it’s this assumption that women are supposed to take on all of these duties. And I just want to say as a feminist, there is a lot of duties that I do at home. But I have had that intentional conversation with my partner around that. I think so often, like when I was younger in a different marriage, I did not have that conversation. I just thought that was my job and was wondering, why am I so angry and pissed off?
Well, obviously there’s a lot of reasons that go into that. But so much of it is we just take on these duties and they’re not necessarily ours to take on. We think it’s supposed to be us but wrong.
Marissa: Right, yeah. And I do think again the layers of being conditioned to believe your role is to serve others. And I think a lot of times if you work in public health or if you’re a parent, whether you’re socialized or you truly want to, there is this, “Well, I like to do it. I like helping people.” And I think that can be tricky of it can be true that you enjoy it but you also need a break and you need to give yourself some rest. And I do think if you have a partner, if you’re raising kids with a partner, then those conversations can be really hard to bring up, and initiate, and negotiate.
And if you don’t have a partner and you’re raising kids then there is a whole other set of making decisions for yourself. Is it that I’m going to spend money to get support? Is it that I’m just going to choose not to do certain things to give myself rest? There is a lot of decision making but I just find a lot of people don’t even let themselves go there. They don’t even get that far.
Ali: No, absolutely not. What I often just see is people believe, truly believe that there is no other alternative to whatever they’re living which is, it can be a whole number of things. And then they develop this really narrow view of themselves as the helper or as the person that does everything. Sometimes that adds that victim mentality or that martyr mentality that I know I used to struggle with. And then they also view their kids in that way too in that really narrow way because if we’re viewing ourselves in a really narrow mindset, we’re also our viewing our kids in a really narrow mindset.
Which can then be detrimental for everybody especially in terms of what we’re modelling for our humans.
Marissa: Yeah. So, let’s think about for folks who have children, for parents. What are some ways that they could start thinking, they might not have even thought of ways for them to get rest. One example, I shared this yesterday on my social media and you kind of just touched on it. My partner and I, we don’t have kids. But we have conversations about sharing duties. And I think equality and equity are different. It doesn’t mean we do everything equally but we try to have equity with cooking, with cleaning, with walking our dog.
And sometimes its unbalanced but we consciously have that conversation and it gives us both rest. So, what are some other examples for folks who are parents or have kids that that might be?
Ali: Yeah, absolutely. So, what you’re touching on is just creating that awareness. You’re not creating, like you said, equality or equity but at least just creating that awareness I think is that first step which is something that I really like to do with my clients. When they believe there’s no other alternative, creating that awareness of did you know there’s other potential options? I love people’s faces when they’re just like, “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” And then it’s like, “Wait, maybe there are other options.” So, creating awareness is huge.
One think I thing I think a lot about is how challenging it can be to ask for help. I think part of it is we again, we live in a society, well, it’s just this hyper independence. So then when you think of someone who’s been socialized as a woman and then has added the role of mom, and then added maybe some helping profession. There’s so many layers there, of I should be able to do all this on my own and if I’m not then I’m a failure which is so wrong. It’s not true.
But this becomes again this narrow mindset that people get in of if I ask for help then I’m a failure. And that’s not true, so I think asking for help or even just thinking about what would it be like to ask for help and being okay with that maybe being a little bit uncomfortable. Something I think about a lot too is, I talk to my clients a lot about is tapping into your authentic desire. And what I mean by that is stop thinking, even just suspend this for a moment, stop thinking about what you should be doing and start thinking about what you want to be doing.
It doesn’t mean you have to take action right that moment but we so often just get into this obligation type of mindset where we have to, have to, have to. What if you didn’t have to do anything in that moment? Just try it on for a second, it’s just like trying on a dress. And just see how that feels, just see how that pressure lifts.
Marissa: Right. What if you didn’t have to have a clean house all the time? What if you didn’t have to make dinner from scratch every night? Asking for help I think is really uncomfortable, and whether it’s asking your partner, or maybe asking a family member, or a friend to babysit. And maybe that’s something you explore and they say no or you’re not comfortable then it’s like, okay, how can you help yourself? Maybe it’s, you know what, I’m just going to learn to be okay with maybe buying frozen meals every once in a while.
Or I’m going to learn to be okay with not really having a clean home even if my kids invite their friends over or something. And that can be really uncomfortable.
Ali: For sure but I think again it comes down to models. I know for when I was a kid my mom did not ever want to have guests over because she said our house wasn’t clean enough.
Marissa: Yeah, oh my gosh, my mom too.
Ali: Yeah, [crosstalk].
Marissa: I mean it’s almost like – I mean and then I picked this up too, this compulsion for everything to always be perfect and clean. And I have done a lot of work to detach from that.
Ali: Same, absolutely. I don’t know about you but I had to address that because I was becoming such a miserable person and this taskmaster that I didn’t like. Because it was like, again, I was carrying modeling from a kid of the house has to look a certain way, you have to put all your stuff in a specific place. And I was becoming such a rigid person with this type of control that I was holding onto that I wasn’t happy. I was unhappy and no one else was happy in the house either.
And so really getting clear about why am I perpetuating this pattern? Why does this matter so much to me? If it’s because of how other people are going to judge you or how you’re going to judge you I think it’s worth taking a look at. If you simply love cleaning the house and it just brings you so much happiness and if you’re not doing it as a buffering activity, or you’re not vengeance cleaning to show your partner how much more you’re doing than someone else. Okay, fine, if it’s coming from a clean place.
But I think it’s really important to look at what can you control and what can you not control and even in that moment of just looking at where can you make a difference whether for yourself, or how you’re feeling, or in your home and what can you not. Even just that alone can be this really huge awareness of I’m holding onto so much that I have no control over.
Marissa: Yeah, definitely. And if you’re comfortable I’d love for you to share the example you shared when we were chatting with our coach, Kara. What I saw when you said this, I was like, “That is such rest that you give yourself.” About the pants with your child, about leggings.
Ali: Yes. So, a little bit of a backstory. I have ADHD. I am neurodivergent, all of my kids are as well. So, it’s been a journey of creative solutions. And what that has meant is if I am in a stress mindset I am not thinking creatively. I am not thinking curiously about how to solve problems. So, one of my kiddos several years ago, every single morning it was a struggle to get to school and it was always something like hair, wanting to wear the same outfit multiple times in a week, lots of things.
So, it became this, I got curious, what can we do here to make mornings a little bit easier? And one of them is she wanted to wear these tie dyed pants every day, she loved them. Also totally legit, they had drawstrings to make them tighter and there were pockets. And her biggest thing was just like there’s not enough pants with pockets in the world, which I agree with.
So instead of deciding to put more work on myself by washing the pants every day, instead of creating this ridiculous rule that she had to change clothes every day, or wear something different every day. I just bought multiple pairs of the same pants, so much of the stress was gone because there was no more fight.
Marissa: Right. Because you’re like, I know they want to wear this, we bought multiple, wear it every day, no more fighting over it.
Ali: No more fighting over it. Now, then it became, what are we going to really – choosing battles. I think that’s such a huge thing. I don’t even like to use the word ‘battles’, but just choose what you’re going to spend your energy on. Is it really going to matter if they brush their hair or not? I mean I care but do they care?
Marissa: Right. And I think talking about this, that is part of, that can be restful being like, “Okay, I’m going to not put so much energy into these spaces.” At least for now, you can always change. And it’s personal, it’s person-to-person. If you feel like, hey, I can’t send my kid to school without their hair brushed and looking a certain way because we might be discriminated against or they might be treated differently because of their identity. That is totally understandable and you get to make that choice.
But there is another way you can choose to reduce your energy somewhere else, maybe it’s in the home and not making scratch made meals or something. So, we’re not saying you have to do it this way. But just think about the ways in which you’re spending all of your energy and where you could kind of reduce it a little bit to get that energy back for yourself mentally and emotionally.
Ali: 100%, just again, like you said, I totally understand coming from, like being a white person there is a lot of privilege. I think there’s not a lot of discrimination in that sense. There is discrimination in other ways, like I said the neurodivergence and the struggles that my kids have had in that way. But it’s person to person and I think that’s what’s so important to remember as far as parenting goes. This is I think a piece of the taking care of elders that has really been wonderful for kids.
So much of what I was a proponent of and a leader in, in my career was person centered care. Every person needs a different type of way that they’re being cared for. And it’s the same for kids and it’s the same for us. So again, that comes to what they need as far as love, and care, and also rest. It looks very different for each person. And so, it’s going to be very subjective for every single family and individual.
Marissa: Right. And this is the other thing I’d love parents to think about is think about what you picked up from the modeling your parents particularly, if you had a mother, your mother around resting. For me I definitely did not pick up habits of rest, I picked up habits of busyness, and being overwhelmed, and ideals of perfectionism. And so that makes sense, we pick up stuff our parents modeled, it’s not blaming our parents.
But you choosing to rest, even imperfect rest and what that means for you is modeling for your kids that they can give themselves permission to rest too as they get older and become adults and all that.
Ali: This is such an important topic that I have been thinking about so much. And one of the reasons I’m so passionate with parent coaching is we model, what we do we’re modeling for our children. So even if we’re not saying, “I don’t deserve rest”, our actions are still showing that. And our kids are so perceptive. They see what we’re doing and not doing. They pick up those cues and they will learn them. And so, so much of parenting and how we care for ourselves is really, are you willing to model that for your children?
And that comes to rest, that comes to the way you talk to yourself, that comes to the way that you treat your home. I think so much of it is are you willing to do for yourself what you want your kids to do for themselves? And also, it just looks kind of hypocritical and double standard, and kids also pick up on that.
Marissa: Yeah. And I think that happens a lot in the workplace too of folks who I work with who are supervisors, who are championing their staff, or even their colleagues to take rest, take days off, not work when they’re sick but then they’re not doing that. And that makes sense, it’s so much easier for us to champion someone else and support someone else than ourselves because we’re raised to be hypercritical of ourselves and hold ourselves to this unattainable extreme perfectionistic standard.
So, we all have that experience but that is where the work is of really centering yourself and deciding for you right now, what would be restful for you in the circumstances you’re in, whether that’s you’re a single parent, whether that’s you live in a multigenerational home. And your parents, or your aunt and uncle live with you, and there’s a lot of people. And it’s different family to family, person to person.
Ali: Absolutely. And I love what you’re saying around this happens all the time especially like you’re saying, parent, child, supervisor and staff where they’re messaging something different than they are doing. And yes, it’s easier. I know even as coaches we talk about this of it’s easy to send the message that we want. But to take that on is really where the work is but I think that’s really, to me that’s so much of what integrity is and being honest about where you’re at in the journey.
I sometimes, not sometimes, I am very honest with my kids. And there is a lot of accountability around that of I’m having trouble resting, I’m having trouble, just acknowledging, I’m feeling some stress around the stuff that’s everywhere. Can you please help me pick up so we can all rest? It’s sharing in that, I call it burden sharing. It’s such an important thing and again it can look so different in every single home. But so important just to think about where are you stuck? Where do you see that you can make that tiny shift? And that’s where that work is.
Marissa: Yeah. And it is really about these tiny shifts. It’s not about overnight becoming perfect at this. It’s just like what is one thing you could do today that would be restful for you? And maybe what it is today is different than next week. Maybe it’s different than your partner or your friend. But what is that one thing? Is it ordering takeout? Is it spending time meal prepping? Is it taking a nap? Is it letting the toys be out? Is it letting your kid decide what they’re going to wear? There are a million things, it’s what is it for you? You can only decide that.
Ali: Yes, absolutely. And I always love to think about, am I doing this for myself or am I doing this so that people think a certain thing about me? And speaking of going back to school, I know this has been something that I’ve had to work on a lot. I feel like the beginning of school and new clothes kind of go together. It’s a new school year, we’re supposed to get new clothes. Okay, the reality is it it’s still summertime at least where I live in Colorado, it’s still summertime. It’s still quite warm when we go back to school, when the kids go back in August.
My kids are still wearing their summer clothes, they do not need all of the fall, winter stuff that is in the stores. Think about what the reason is for if you’re going school shopping, do they really need it or do you just want the appearance of your family to be a certain way? This is so important. So, one thing that I’ve done to really increase rest at least in this way is I buy my kids’ clothes when they need them. It’s not just like it’s new school year, you get a whole new wardrobe. That’s so wasteful. And also, they don’t even wear the stuff that’s in the stores because it’s winter stuff.
So, it’s just little things like that of what works for my family obviously looks very different for each person. But I think that’s such an important thing of just like are you doing this for others or are you doing it for yourself?
Marissa: Right. And it is personal. For someone else, taking their kids to go shopping for new stuff, that might actually be restful, maybe they really get joy from that. But discerning that is a skill you have to practice. I’m still working on it. And who am I doing this for? Because there’s a lot of unconscious beliefs or ways our brains try to trick us. But I’m so glad you brought this up because this, it is about the time, people’s kids are going back to school, and I think a lot of parents, correct me if I’m wrong.
But my experience with folks is it’s like, yes, kids are going to be back in school, I’m finally going to be able to rest, the exhaustion from summer. And then a couple of weeks go by and it’s like, wait, I don’t feel rested, I’m still just as exhausted. And then it’s like, well, winter break, when’s winter break? Then I’ll feel right. And it’s like the cycle throughout the whole year of just I’ll rest in the future and then you never rest. What is that about?
Ali: Okay. Well, this is really funny. Well, first of all it’s called the arrival fallacy. I was actually searching about this the other day because I struggle with this. So, arrival fallacy is basically the lie that we tell ourselves that we will feel a certain way when, fill in the blank. So, I know for me I recently moved and I kept running into this, I’ll be able to rest when all the boxes are unpacked. I’ll be able to feel peace when everything is organized. And it was just the subconscious thing that I was just putting off my relaxation and my rest because slowing down equaled probably being lazy.
I still struggle with this stuff. And I realized I can feel peace now even if those boxes aren’t unpacked. And so, I think that parents and I’ve definitely struggled with this when the kids were younger and I still do where it’s like we put that rest or that relaxation in the future tense but we never get to it because we just create this future scenario, somehow I’m going to be happy when. Okay, no, so realizing that’s a lie. You have to be intentional and you have to create it now.
Marissa: Yeah, you create it for yourself and that’s the other thing is I think what happens is, this idea of once the kids go back to school I’ll be able to rest. But then you don’t plan it, you don’t schedule it so where does that rest come from? Does it just magically appear? You have to prioritize it. You have to be like, okay, they’re back in school so I’m going to block off time in my calendar once a week to go, I don’t know, go to take a class, or go on a walk, or whatnot. You have to prioritize it. It’s not going to just happen to you.
Ali: No, it’s not magic. And I think so much of it is, well, what is the same? It’s still the thoughts that are not shifting. And I think so much of it comes down to it’s not the circumstance of your kids going back to school that create more rest. It’s your thoughts about rest or your thoughts about how you care for yourself that need to change.
I always view beginning of school, I used to do this of the beginning of the school year almost used to be like New Year’s resolution kind of the equivalent of this year we’re going to have that mega calendar that has all the color codes for what everybody needs. And this year I’m going to have all those, you know, everyone’s going to have color coded backpack hangers. And this year is going to be the year of the school lunches.
And it’s like all these perfectionist fantasies, but it’s just like with New Year’s resolutions where a couple of weeks in I fizzle out because I’m creating this really unrealistic expectation of myself. And then I’m being kind of shitty to myself because it’s like, I knew I’m not good at organizing. So, it’s just validating the thing that I’m insecure about. What if you decide you want to be a little bit more organized? You take one little step today to do that.
Marissa: Right, yeah. And for those of you who maybe you have younger children who aren’t in school yet. Your brain’s probably like, well, once my kid does go to preschool, once they do go to kindergarten then I’ll rest. It’s the same thing for you, it is about the decisions you make and what you think no matter if your kid is still in diapers, or in school, or in high school, or whatnot. It’s your choices, what you chose to do. And it’s true, through the phases of your life as a parent and your kids’ life obviously it’s going to change what rest looks like for you.
But yeah, the idea that at some point in the future it’ll be perfect, or this year will be perfect. That’s just setting yourself up to really not feel good.
Ali: Yeah. And I almost feel like we’re giving this bomb of truth of no, sorry, that’s not going to work. But I think it’s really important to be honest with folks about if you put off that time for yourself, it’s not just going to magically come because you’re going to then fill it. You’re always going to fill it with other things. There is always things you can be doing. And so, you have to be really intentional about that time. And I think it is hard for parents, when your kids are first born you are responsible for a lot of their care.
They literally do need you to survive as far as food, and changing their diapers, and cleanliness, and holding them, and soothing them. And then it feels like forever, even though it’s just a couple of months or a couple of years, they’re no longer depending on you in the same ways. But we still have that same mindset of that we’re responsible for everything.
And again, it's like what I mentioned earlier of that very narrow mindset that we can get into and realizing being flexible around what our kids are needing, being flexible around what we are needing, and around what the needs are so important. Because they change, we change as humans all the time. [Crosstalk] and that means just the type of support that we need and our kids need is going to shift over time. And that’s okay, that’s a good thing.
Marissa: Yeah. And even on a smaller scale, even thinking about going back to school, that is a transition, that is a shift in everyone’s schedule and everyone’s priorities. So, during those big transitions, you just went through a move, that can be one, changing schools can be one, winter break, summer break going back to school. What are some ways folks listening can really think about making this transition not perfect, not the smoothest but prioritizing rest and supporting themselves through that transition?
Ali: I have three things. So, the first thing is I’m going to list them and then I’m going to talk more about them. So, the first one is collaboration. Number two, plan imperfectly. Number three, releasing attachment. So, number one with collaboration, collaborate with your kids. What are their goals? What are their expectations? What do they want? Share with your kids, what are your goals, what are your expectations.
Share with your partner, what are their goals? Have a conversation with your family and see what everybody is wanting with that specific timeframe, with that transition. See where there’s overlaps and how everyone can support one another.
Marissa: I love that and if you don’t have a partner you can still just do it with your kids, it will still make an impact, no matter how old the kids are, even if your kid’s five.
Ali: Yes, absolutely. Let me just share. I am in a cohabitating situation with my partner now but I was a single parent for five, six years. And we had family meetings about this exact same thing. So, you do not necessarily need another partner to do this. Really the conversation is with the people in your family. I love using those terms.
Marissa: Yeah, whatever your family is, whether you have multiple partners or multigenerational, you have parents, or aunts and uncles, yeah, totally.
Ali: Yeah. But collaboration, sharing what you’re wanting. Nobody’s a mind reader. Your kid might not even know what they’re wanting from this time. But asking them is so huge, then we can start to share, we can get curious, we can see how we can creatively problem solve by kind of planning ahead of well, what are you wanting from this winter break or this beginning of the school year? How do you want to feel about this? And seeing how we can support one another and that is so huge.
Marissa: Totally, I love that.
Ali: Number two, plan imperfectly. I think so often we believe that if we have the most tight schedule with everything on the calendar then everything’s going to go just fine. Okay, let’s be real, that’s not what makes our lives less stressful. Sure, planning can help but if we are so attached to everything happening in that very specific timeframe then we’re kind of setting ourselves up to be miserable. Really any time we’re going to be planning with a lot of rigidity or no flexibility, things are going to come up. That’s just how life works.
And you have kids which means they are sometimes on their own time zones which is [crosstalk].
Marissa: I love that, kids are on their time zones.
Ali: So, one thing that I have really worked to do is to create buffer zones for time. And what that means is I am not creating this back to back type of schedule. I’m giving a lot of extra time, more than I think I need. And that’s just something that I think I struggle with because of ADHD of sometimes I think something just takes five minutes. It’s either five minutes or it’s going to take the rest of my life, therefore I’m not going to do it. So, I’ve had to put a lot of work into being a lot more realistic about how much time something will take.
And it has just created so much more maybe just talking about it, so much more freedom and liberation to move from item to item in the to-do list without it feeling like this back to back thing, or feeling like I’m behind. Because I’m just creating so much more time in the [crosstalk].
Marissa: Right. And the truth is we get it wrong, we do [crosstalk] and that’s okay. And the other thing I’ll say is if you’re listening and you’re not a parent but you’re in school, you’re in grad school, same thing. Same thing could apply to your schedule. And also, here’s the other thing I hear a lot. We do schedule and plan all of our to-do’s and chores. We do not schedule our rest. So even during a period of transition, if you’re building a calendar or scheduling what needs to be done, your list of to-do’s before school starts or as school starts. Put things of rest on there too.
Ali: Yes, absolutely. It’s so important. And again, be creative about what that type of rest looks like to you. One thing that I also was thinking as we were talking is just know ahead of time that in transition times, there might be a little bit more stress. And just be okay with that. And it’s work, it’s work to be okay with it. But I think knowing ahead of your time, planning, telling your brain this is going to be a time where there is going to be some transition and we might be a little stressed and we might forget something, makes such a huge difference.
I think so often we give ourselves these very unrealistic expectations of how we need to be and behave, or else we’re failures. What if making mistakes was just what it was? What if there’s no blame or shame? It just is during transitions, we’re adjusting to new times or new schedules and [crosstalk] mistakes.
Marissa: Right. I always say, when I know I’m going to have a busy week or period, I just remind myself, I’m definitely going to drop the ball. That’s okay.
Ali: [Crosstalk].
Marissa: No, you can totally guess. There’s definitely something I’m going to miss or forget and that’s okay. Just expect that so then you don’t freak out when it happens because it’s going to happen.
Ali: Yes, I think that’s so huge. I’m definitely going to be a human a lot. And then yeah, releasing attachment to a specific outcome. Any time that we are holding ourselves or creating this very specific outcome of what something needs to look like, we are then not being present with what actually is. And I think this is such a huge piece that leads to just kind of a bigger pattern of when we’re not being present that means we’re not paying attention to what’s happening.
And I think letting go of what something needs to look like and just being present with this is the goal, this is what I want but also I recognize other things can happen here, allows you to be a human and allows your kids to be human. It allows for so much more just compassion and gentleness throughout the whole, well, the whole journey but really just the whole transition period of just letting people be who they are without again, putting them in that narrow box and labeling that mindset which I want to say our brains are trained to do that.
Our brains want to judge. Our brains want to label. Our brains want to have that patterning and that very neat box. But actually, none of us like being put in a box and labeled. Our kids don’t like that either. And so, releasing that is a practice but so much liberation on the other side of releasing that.
Marissa: Totally. And then remind me step three, detaching, not attaching?
Ali: Yeah, just releasing attachment to a specific outcome was kind of just what I went over. I was like, if you recognize that you are just really attached, just something looking a certain way, get curious about why. Why does it need to look a certain way? What am I hoping I will feel if it looks a certain way? What am I afraid of feeling if it goes [crosstalk].
Marissa: I mean that can even have an after the fact, my brain still does this where I do something and then my brain just goes over, and over, and over to it didn’t go well, didn’t go the way I wanted, I should have done this. And then it’s so much energy is wasted doing that.
Ali: So much energy is wasted. And I think what I see with parents is it becomes this bigger pattern of, when we’re spending so much energy thinking about how things went wrong, we are not putting any energy into what went right, what went well. How did we do something well. What are our kids doing that is actually really amazing? When we only focus on the negative, that’s all that we see in ourselves and our children. And it does impact over time our relationships with ourselves and our kids.
And really is sad, and I have to work on it too. It’s an intentional practice but I just think really what our brains pay attention to will grow. And that’s the positive or the negative.
Marissa: Right. I find this both in parenting but even in work, or if you’re at school. We do have this negativity bias, it’s evolutionary. Think about, everyone listening, whether you’re a parent or not, how much time your brain spends on focusing on all the things that it thinks you did wrong or could have done better. Rather than focusing on where you’re proud of yourself, where you’re really happy you showed up. And that can take some intentional work but it will create such a different emotional experience for you.
Ali: Yes. The funny thing is our brains don’t even offer that to us. Our brains don’t even think, what went well in that situation? It’s like what was terrible about that or what will be terrible about this? [Crosstalk] ourselves the option of, what if everything works out great?
Marissa: Listen you all, I texted Ali this week, I won’t give all the details but I was like, “My brain is telling me that either this is going to happen or this is going to happen.” Of course, it’s both negative and Ali was like, “Well what if it all turns out great?” And I was like, “My brain did not offer me that option, literally it didn’t.” I was like, “Whoa, what, it could go great?” Literally it blew my mind.
Ali: Yeah. Our brains are liars. And I just love to just think about this all the time of yeah, I mean and I was texting you the other day about my brain being like a raccoon in a trashcan trying to bring me thoughts that are well formed. And it’s like, no, it is a trash panda, they’re trying to bring me pieces of trash saying it’s pieces of revelatory truth. No.
Marissa: Yeah. Oh man, this is so good, Ali, and it will also help so many folks. Anything you want to share we didn’t touch on as we wrap up?
Ali: I think the only other thing that I want to add is I have really been practicing this piece of mindfulness. And it can look a lot of different ways for people. Personally, I do love meditation. I think that it has been this practice of again, just practicing, noticing instead of reacting. And so, whatever that looks like for people it just has made such a huge difference in my life of getting into that practice of just noticing without reacting.
And I just want to offer that to people of we do not have to respond with the first thing that comes in our head whatever that looks like. If it’s deep breath practices, if it’s just spending time in nature, deep breathing, if it’s just slowing down, whatever it takes just to slow down and to be safe in your body. And again, that’s a huge thing to land on the end of this podcast. But it's so huge of what would it take to just be a little bit more mindful in our actions throughout the day rather than just on that hamster wheel of going, going, going, going?
Marissa: Right. And it does look different. I know some people, meditation isn’t their thing and that’s fine. For me it’s thought downloads. When I become aware it’s like, okay, let me just put all my thoughts on paper and that helps me detach a little bit. And for others of you it might be maybe you have a gratitude journal, or maybe you do step away, whatever it is. So yeah, I do think that’s important no matter if you’re a parent or not.
Ali: Yeah, it doesn’t really matter. All of our nervous systems need that care and so whatever it looks like, find it, and go with it, enjoy it, you do not have to be living this mindset of just go, go, go, we can slow down. It is safe, it is okay. It’s actually revolutionary, crush the patriarchy kind of exercise.
Marissa: And toxic capitalism, toxic productivity which, yeah, I’m on a mission with that. Thanks so much, Ali. Tell everyone where they can find you if they want to get connected with you. And we’ll leave all the links of course in the show notes.
Ali: Yeah, absolutely. You can find me on Instagram at ali_ryan_coaching and that’s A-L-I_R-Y-A-N and then my website is aliryancoaching.com.
Marissa: Awesome. And we’ll have those links for everyone. Thanks so much for being here.
Ali: Thank you so much for having me, it was so good to talk with you.
Marissa: Yeah, you too. Alright, everyone, have a great week.
If you found this episode helpful then you have to check out my coaching program where I provide you individualized support to create a life centered around rest. Head on over to mckoolcoaching.com, that’s M-C-K-O-O-L coaching.com to learn more.
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