43. The Stress of Ghosts of Workplace Past
If you’ve started a new job or left a job recently, today’s episode is going to be especially relatable to you. And if you haven’t, I’m pretty sure you’ll come up against this at some point, and trust me, you need to be prepared to deal with the stress of ghosts of workplace past.
Today’s episode is about experiences where you leave a job, but your old boss keeps reaching out to you for help, even though you left instructions on how to deal with your responsibilities. This also applies to when you start a new job, and your boss keeps asking you to reach out to your predecessors, or they do it themselves, instead of working with you. I’ve experienced both, and I’m sure some of you have as well.
It's no surprise that these situations are incredibly uncomfortable, so tune in this week to discover how to deal with the stress of ghosts of workplace past. I’m sharing the thoughts and feelings that come up for us when we’re put in positions like this, and how we can choose to react when these ghosts come up in our careers.
If you’re ready to go after your dreams, completely change the trajectory of your future, and have a more joyful day-to-day experience, you have to come work with me. I’ll show you how to go from being burnt out and exhausted to excited and eager about your career, so don’t wait to talk to me. Click here to find out how.
What You Will Discover:
Why ghosts of workplace past are extremely common in Public Health.
My experience of dealing with my old bosses after leaving a position.
What’s going on in our minds when our boss reaches out to our predecessor or asks us to reach out to them.
Why, initially, your reaction should be to step back before deciding what you want to do in these scenarios.
The lack and insecurity that is driving the boss’s actions when they bring up these ghosts of workplace past.
Why it’s always okay to say no when your old boss gets in touch for you to help.
How to see this situation and your boss’s behavior for what it is and decide on the course of action that feels right for you.
Resources:
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Full Episode Transcript:
If you're two to five years out of your MPH degree, love public health, but find yourself secretly unhappy at work and maybe even thinking about quitting your job, then this is the podcast for you. I'm Marissa McKool, host of the Thoughts Are Your Root Cause podcast. Join me each week as I share tips, tools, and resources to help you have the career you've always dreamed of without any of the stress you are experiencing right now. Come along.
Hello, friends. How are you all? I’m so glad you’re with me today listening into this podcast. How are you? What have you been up to? How’s your day? My day has been actually really good, even though it didn’t start out that way. I had this whole plan of getting up and going on a run, a very short, brief run. I am still getting back into exercising since having COVID a while ago.
So, when I run, I have an Apple Watch, and I have the Apple Watch where I don't need my iPhone around because it has its own cellular plan, basically. Which I got because when I walk my dog alone, I want to not always have to carry my phone, but I also want to be able to call if I'm in need or if something happens. Lately, my Bluetooth and my watch have not been connecting, or it didn't seem that way because when I play a podcast to go on a walk, it would get all jumbled, and then it would cut out.
It turns out it wasn't the connection. It wasn't my Bluetooth. It was because my watch needed an update. So, this morning I go to update my watch, and I think, oh, this will take maybe 30 minutes at the most. Oh, boy, was I wrong because I had to update my actual iPhone, which took forever. Then, updating the watch took forever. I think I started the process around 8:30, and it was finally done; I don't know, maybe 10:00, so an hour and a half.
So, while that was happening at first, I was really frustrated. I was like, okay, I guess I will like do some of the work now because my run is going to be delayed, and I was getting frustrated. I kept saying to my partner can you believe how long this is taking? And I was getting so frustrated. Then finally I was like, you know what? It is what it is. I could decide to just stop the update, and I didn't want to do that.
So, I basically was like, okay, well, I'll just get as much work as I can do while this is going, however long it takes, and just like, let it be. It wasn't what I planned, but I'd rather just not be so frustrated. And what ended up happening was I actually got a lot of work done, and then when I went on my run, I actually enjoyed it. I mean, it was rough.
I'm not going to lie to y'all, but I enjoyed it. Then, I did a little bit more work, and I actually went on a hike with a friend mid-day, like right after lunch, and now I'm back at working. I didn't have any meetings today, so I did have that flexibility, and it actually has been really nice to kind of have a change-up in my routine.
Typically I have a kind of standard routine, but it felt really good. I got out of the house twice today. I worked, and then moved my body, and then worked, and then moved my body, and now working. I don't know; I just loved it. It ended up being such a great day because of that shift, and if I didn't let go of my frustration, I wouldn't have had that. So, I'm sharing that to say, like, you know, I still don't always do that, but I think it's a good lesson for us all to reflect on because we've all had those experiences before.
The other thing before we get into the episode I wanted to share is I met with my podcast production team this week. Shout out to Angela and Megan, who are amazing, and I'm really excited. We have some really, really, fun exciting things happening, some changes, some exciting news, like, I can't wait to tell y'all. Just a few more weeks and you'll find out, but I mean, I wish I could tell you now. I'm so, so excited. I can't wait. So, just keep tuning in. Keep your ears, you know, perked for the news. I can't wait until we can share what we're working on.
So, today we're talking about the ghost of workplace past. So, this is an episode about experiences where you leave a job, and your old boss keeps reaching out to you for help. And actually, also, if you start a new job and your new boss keeps asking you to reach out to your predecessors or keeps reaching out to your predecessors instead of working with you.
It's kind of like both very, very similar, and I've experienced both. I'm sure some of you have experienced one or the other. Some of you might have started a new job recently and are experiencing this, right? So, I've actually experienced this multiple times. Unfortunately, it seems very common in public health. My first job after my fellowship my supervisor, like, I got into this new job, left my fellowship, got into a new job, and my new supervisor at my new job kept asking me to contact the old staff person, like, the person in the position before me.
Who, by the way, left the organization completely, and not only that, got a job 3,000 miles away across the country. And that person was gone a whole month before I even started. So, it's not like I met them, and they trained me for a few days. There was no formal introduction. There was no crossover, nothing, and this prior staff person was not asked clearly before they left, or I started if they would be willing to do this.
Like, there was no agreement beforehand. They were not being offered compensation to help me. That was a struggle, right? And it felt really awkward, and we're going to talk about why, but I've also had the opposite experience where I've been the one who's left the job. My old boss continued to reach out to me with questions and asked for my help, and when this did happen to me, I had created before I left a brand new onboarding process for them.
I created a 30-page training document that had everything. Literally, everything that I had done, and the job required where everything was saved, where you did what, and how, like, even screenshots of images pointing to what you do. I organized all the files, like, everything was wrapped in a really nice, neat bow for the next person, and I still had it happen where my old boss kept reaching out to me, and I have also had neither of those happens, right?
I've started jobs where my new boss never asked me to contact my predecessor, even if there were lingering onboarding or training questions or needs. I've also left jobs where my old boss never bothered me for more information even if I didn't leave everything all neat and tidy. So, I want to be very clear what we're talking about today, and what we're going to walk through is not dependent on what you did or didn't do for the job or the position before you left, right?
Like, that doesn't matter if you create a training manual for them or you did train the new person like, that really doesn't matter, right? That's not your job. That's the job of your supervisor at that time or the team or the organization, and if you did that like I've done in the past, that's very nice of you. That's great, but it's not your job, right. It's not your responsibility.
What we're going to be talking about today is not dependent on if your new job has a new onboarding or training process. If they don't have that, that's on your boss. Right? Not the old employee. So, let me explain a little bit further. So, let's say you're in a situation where your new boss tells you to reach out to your predecessor, the person in your role before you. When this happens, I bet what's going on in your mind; you're wondering if they're questioning your ability, right?
You start to feel like you have to prove yourself. You are worried you're being compared to this person. You're worried about bothering that prior staff person. Right? And in the other scenario where you leave a job, and your old boss won't stop bothering you, probably what's going on in your mind is, well, I don't want to burn bridges. Right? We're always told don't burn bridges, which may be a whole other episode because of like terrible career advice.
And in this situation, you're probably also wondering, like well, I don't know how to say no, and I need to say it nicely, and they probably really need the support, and I feel bad, right? And also, you might be feeling frustrated, right? In that job you just left, you probably experienced if your old boss is asking you after you left to keep helping them, unpaid. Just off the clock, then I probably would guess that while you were in that job, your boss was asking you to do things that were really their responsibility or repeat things and explain things over and over that you've already explained.
That they just weren't fully listening or not fully engaged, right? So, then it's just frustrating that it keeps going even after you leave. In both of those scenarios, the way we react to our boss, old or new, asking us about those things or to do those things is we focus on ourselves, right? Notice how I said, well, you might be worried you have to prove yourself or don't know how to say no? Right?
That's focused on you, and normally I'm very much about like, focus on you and what you can do and all of that, but in this scenario, I actually think you have to step away from that for a little bit because you're spending so much time worrying about what it means about you and what they're going to think about you and how to respond and what to say, and how to say and what to do. And I actually think this is the wrong place to be spending your energy initially, right?
I think there is a place and time to decide, okay, well, how do I want to respond? What do I want to do? All of that, for sure, we're not getting rid of that completely, but let's not start there. We need to step back and let's get clarity on why your boss is doing that in the first place. It's not because the person in your role before you was better at the job than you are, and it's not because the organization is falling apart without you there. It is because your new or old boss, your boss, is in their own lack.
What is driving their behavior, their actions to ask you to contact the old staff person who doesn't work at the organization anymore to help you is a result of your bosses own insecurity, and their self-doubt, and their lack of confidence in themselves. Your boss doing this and asking you to take this action is not because they think your predecessor is better than you. It is because they don't believe. They, the boss, have the ability to lead you.
It's not because of you. It's because of their lack of confidence in themselves as a leader and manager. They're thinking, oh, shit, I don't have the experience or skills to teach you this. I don't know how to do this. They're probably even thinking I should, right? Like I should have known this, or they explained this to me so many times or whatever it may be, and they feel shame.
They feel ashamed because they think they should know which p.s. they should. But they feel this shame because they don't believe they can figure it out, and instead of addressing their shame, they deflect it by telling you to go ask the old staff person instead. And how do we know this is coming from insecurity? Because a leader who is confident or secure in their ability as a leader or manager would instead respond with, okay, I actually don't have the experience or skills to teach you this.
And maybe they wouldn't say this to you, but like this would be happening in our mind. So, they recognize they don't have the experience or skills, but they then would go to a place of how can I learn it? To then teach this new staff person. Or how can I set it up so we can learn it together? Or who within our organization who still works here, right, that's part of their job, and they're compensated, can I engage to help my new staff replacement?
And even further, if I'm bringing on someone else in the organization to help, how can I compensate them or recognize them for their time or negotiate some work getting off their plate for it. That is a huge difference. That response doesn't come from shame. That comes from confidence. And not confidence because they know everything, confidence because they trust themselves to lead, manage, and to find a solution that is best for you. Best for the new staff person. Best for the team.
Now, if the best solution was that the prior staff person really truly was the only person with that knowledge and they needed to share it with the new hire documented or trained, which is very rare, to be honest, but let's just give that a little air space for a second.
Then, an informed, attentive, and thoughtful leader who is doing their job with either (A) have worked with that staff person to make sure that information was documented, or training was put together prior to their departure. Or (B) when they realized, oh, that didn't happen, and that's a mistake, and we should have made sure that occurred. They would figure out another solution.
Maybe they would reach out to the prior staff person to make it happen, but it would also come with recognizing that they're asking them to do something that's not their job anymore, offering to compensate for their time to train you or train themselves, and also be okay with a no. And expect a no, probably.
Let's go to the other scenario, right, so we've talked through what's going on in your boss's mind. You've started a new job, and they keep asking you to reach out to the old staff person for help. So, let's go to the scenario where you've left your job, but your old boss keeps contacting you. Again, this is not because you leaving that organization meant you left them high and dry, and they're falling apart without you, or they need your help to not fall apart.
It is because your old boss is insecure about their ability to lead to make decisions to do their job during a transition to onboard a new staff member and a new employee. And likely, they felt this way when you still worked there. They likely were already insecure about their management skills. Insecure that they weren't as involved as they should be or as helpful to you as they could be, didn't know as much as they thought they should.
Instead of learning how to be a better leader when you're around, they just let you do all your own leading. So, when it came time for you to leave and the transition to happen, someone else to come on board, your old boss did not have the skills or confidence to actually lead that transition. And instead of stepping up to overcome that personal challenge of theirs, not yours, they again deflect and turn to you.
There's also a big difference here between someone who comes to you and says, hey, I realize that we are woefully underprepared for this transition. Can I pay you this amount of money for X amount of hours to help us with a specific task, and then name the actual specific tasks. Like, really thought out, what is needed, not the extra, like, what is the need? How much time will this take? What are we going to compensate, like, be very specific, and then respect and honor your answer, whether yes or no?
That is very different than someone emailing you or texting you asking you for a one-off questions or favors or to meet with them or take a minute of your time, over and over again. Okay? Do you see how these two experiences are just different sides to the same coin? The coin is the boss deflecting their own feelings of shame, insecurity, lack, and not doing their job of leading onto someone else. And why is this important for you to see?
One, I want you to see this is not about you. It's not about your worth or your ability. You spending all of your time worrying about if they don't have confidence in you, like the old staff member better, or worrying about burning bridges or how you can say no without offending them is truly a waste of your time. It really is because it's not about you.
You are in this circumstance, not because you're not good at your new job or too good at your old job, but because of your boss. Their insecurity and their lack of confidence of their self-doubt, and recognizing this and seeing it for what it is will give you so much more power and confidence back. Power to make a decision that is actually rooted in what you want to do, recognizing that whatever you decide, your boss will still feel insecure, and your boss will still be in a lack of their own leadership skills. Nothing you do, no matter what you say, if you agree to help out or not, or agree to reach out to the old staff person or not, will fix their lack of confidence, their insecurity, and their leadership skills.
Only they can do that, and you trying to make a decision based on accommodating them and their insecurities rather than what you want and your time and what you need isn't going to serve you. Make a decision based on what you want, and here's how you decide what to do. Ask yourself what are the benefits for me in each course of action, right?
What's the benefit for me if I say yes? What's the benefit for me if I say no? And ask yourself what are the challenges that may come up in that decision for me? So, what are the challenges if I say no? What are the challenges if I say yes, and remember frame this question and your answers about you, not about your boss or the other staff person. Do not answer this based on how your boss will react to you.
So, let's go through an example. Let's say you decide not to contact your predecessor when your boss asks you to, and you decide I'm just going to figure it out on my own. The benefits to that might be you don't have to keep bothering someone you don't even know, you get to stand in your belief you have the ability to learn it, you get to push yourself to find people in the organization who might be able to help you, and create relationships with new coworkers, and you get to figure out a way that works for you.
The challenges might be you might not get the answer, or it might take longer to get the answer. Your boss might keep telling you to go ask the prior employee. They might keep doing that, like, you can't control that, and you'll have to manage your mind about your own self-doubt, which will come up and about your boss's behavior, which you're going to have to manage your mind about your boss's behavior either way, so that's good for you to know.
So, then you review the benefits and challenges based on the example I just walked through, those benefits and challenges; the question then becomes, do you want to take that course of action? And do this with every possible course of action. It doesn't have to be an all-day activity, but give your brain some air space to do this and focus it on you and remind yourself when those thoughts of like burning bridges or maybe they're comparing me, that's, no.
That is not the course of action. Remind yourself that your boss is insecure about their own skills and there in their own lack, which is why they're asking you to do this, and then come back to you and what you want. No matter the course of action you take, no matter the decision you make, whether to contact the old employee or not, whether to agree to help your old boss or not. Your boss will still be the same. Right?
They will still have the same thoughts and the same beliefs and maybe take the same actions. They might still think you should be contacting the old staff person. Again, not because this is the right decision, but because they are avoiding dealing with their own leadership lack. Do not make a decision based on the self-doubt of your boss. Based on the self-doubt your boss has about themselves and their ability to lead.
That will never, ever serve you. Make a decision based on what is best for you. What is the best use of your time of your energy? What has the better short-term or long-term outcomes? What feels in line with your values? What is the best for your work? Either way, no matter what you decide, there will be challenges. Either way, your boss won't change, so make a decision based on you.
There's no right or wrong decision. There's just a decision you make right now based on the reasons you have right now, and you can always make a different one later for different reasons. So, for me, when I started that job after my fellowship and I was constantly being asked to reach out to the old staff person, I did do that at first. I did reach out and email them, and honestly, it's not because I was making that decision for me. I wasn't being intentional at all.
I was making that decision from my own insecurity that my boss was asking me to do it because they didn't believe in me. Or I was getting compared, and I have to prove that I can do it and that's the best way is by reaching out to the old person. Not old person, you know what I mean, the prior staff person. And once I realized this, once I realized that the reason they were asking me to reach out was more about their own insecurity, about their ability to lead and help me, and that they would probably keep telling me to do that forever, probably the whole time I was in the job, at least the whole year.
Because that was driving their leadership lack, and that wasn't going to change. So, when I realized that, I decided I was going to stop reaching out to them. I'm just going to figure it out on my own because I could tell that person didn't really have the time or want to help and probably got a little frustrated that they kept being asked. So I just decided I can figure this out on my own, and I knew I could, and my boss still told me sometimes in our one-on-one's oh, just ask so and so.
Sometimes, I'd respond and say, okay, I will, and honestly, I just didn't and figured it out on my own. Sometimes when they said, oh, just ask so and so, I said, oh, I think I'd rather figure it out on my own, or I think they're really busy. And I said I wouldn't. Eventually, my boss stopped asking me to, but even if she didn't, it wouldn't matter because I made that decision for me. And on the flip side of that coin, when I left my job and was constantly being reached out to to continue supporting them, I sometimes didn't even email back.
I didn't even think twice about it. I was not worried about burning bridges or that they were going to hate me because I don't control their behaviors. And sometimes I did respond back, but way later, and very brief, and sometimes I wrote back and just said, no straight up. Sometimes I wrote back and said, yes, but here's my limited capacity. This is all I got. All of those decisions, later on, came from me, not my lack, not my own insecurity, not me worrying about burning bridges or what they're going to think.
But my confidence that I knew what was best for me and what was the right decision for me in that moment, and I had to grow in a way where I didn't worry about what other people thought as much. Right? I had to actually undo a lot of the really unhelpful, professional advice we get. The advice that always says worry about burning bridges, always say yes, and many others. I had to undo all of that bullshit and come to a place where it's like, no.
I recognize I don't control their behavior or what they think about me. The actions I take don't change their opinion or their behavior. I'm going to do what's right for me and put me first. I'm not going to worry about them or what they think or how they're going to react, and that took work to get to. It took changing my mindset and creating more confidence so I could do that. That's what I want you to take away from today.
Make a decision for you, and if you're struggling with that, recognize that part of that comes from learned behavior to not make a decision for you, right, and to make decisions based on what other people will think or what other people will do. Like, we're very socialized to do that, not just in the workplace, in other areas in our families. If you identify as a woman, you're probably socialized to do that and many other things.
Do not make a decision based on your supervisor's lack in their own self-doubt in their leadership skills. Make it a decision based on your confidence and what's right for you. And if you were in this situation on either side of this coin we've been talking about and you're really struggling with it, I can help you. I've been right through it. I've been on the side where I am constantly worried about what my boss will think and burning bridges and reacting to that, and I've worked my way through it and got coaching and changed my mindset to have full confidence to not even care.
So much so I don't even respond to an email, and I don't even have a thought in the world of if they're going to be mad at me or I burn a bridge. Like I feel confident, it's not going to change our relationship. And if you want that, if you want to work through that, then I can help you. Reach out to me. There is a link we'll share in the show notes for a consultation call, for a curiosity call if you're interested in coaching with me, what that would look like, and I'm happy to share that with you.
You can message me, email me, any way you want to connect. I'm happy to talk to you individually about how you do this work because it is so important. Right now, if you're experiencing this, you are so drained and exhausted, right? And it's really helpful for someone else to come in and help you. It's hard when you're so overwhelmed and exhausted and worried to have the mental energy to figure it out on your own, to create the confidence on your own.
That's why a coach is so helpful because you can come in as your true exhausted self, and that's okay because I'll do the heavy lifting, and I'll help you get there. The other thing you can do if you're not really in the space to commit to coaching or afford it or whatever it may be, join my email list. I give away so many free resources; actually, a couple of weeks back, we did a free coaching week. Exclusively only offered to people on my email list. Meaning you could have come, signed up for an hour of coaching with me, brought this exact issue, and said, hey, here's my situation. My boss keeps asking me to contact this old staff person.
I just started this job. It's really awkward. I don't know what to do, and we would have coached it out, and I would have helped you create that confidence to decide what's right for you. Then, take that action. So, we'll also leave a link to my email list in the show notes. So, the show notes are on my website. So, if you go in the little summary, wherever you listen to this, there's a link to the transcripts and the website, and you just go there, and there are many more details and resources and all of that stuff. So, set up a time to talk with me or join my email list so you can get help doing this.
Alright, y'all can't wait to talk to you next week. Have a great week and weekend, and get some rest. Bye, everyone.
Are you ready to make a change? Whether that's learning to love your job, making a career move, or anything in between, I can help. I'd be honored to coach you through figuring out what's next and navigating the steps to get there. So, head on over to mckoolcoaching.com/consult that's mckoolcoaching.com/consult to set up a time to chat and talk about how you can achieve the career of your dreams.
Hello, friends. How are you all? I’m so glad you’re with me today listening into this podcast. How are you? What have you been up to? How’s your day? My day has been actually really good, even though it didn’t start out that way. I had this whole plan of getting up and going on a run, a very short, brief run. I am still getting back into exercising since having COVID a while ago.
So, when I run, I have an Apple Watch, and I have the Apple Watch where I don't need my iPhone around because it has its own cellular plan, basically. Which I got because when I walk my dog alone, I want to not always have to carry my phone, but I also want to be able to call if I'm in need or if something happens. Lately, my Bluetooth and my watch have not been connecting, or it didn't seem that way because when I play a podcast to go on a walk, it would get all jumbled, and then it would cut out.
It turns out it wasn't the connection. It wasn't my Bluetooth. It was because my watch needed an update. So, this morning I go to update my watch, and I think, oh, this will take maybe 30 minutes at the most. Oh, boy, was I wrong because I had to update my actual iPhone, which took forever. Then, updating the watch took forever. I think I started the process around 8:30, and it was finally done; I don't know, maybe 10:00, so an hour and a half.
So, while that was happening at first, I was really frustrated. I was like, okay, I guess I will like do some of the work now because my run is going to be delayed, and I was getting frustrated. I kept saying to my partner can you believe how long this is taking? And I was getting so frustrated. Then finally I was like, you know what? It is what it is. I could decide to just stop the update, and I didn't want to do that.
So, I basically was like, okay, well, I'll just get as much work as I can do while this is going, however long it takes, and just like, let it be. It wasn't what I planned, but I'd rather just not be so frustrated. And what ended up happening was I actually got a lot of work done, and then when I went on my run, I actually enjoyed it. I mean, it was rough.
I'm not going to lie to y'all, but I enjoyed it. Then, I did a little bit more work, and I actually went on a hike with a friend mid-day, like right after lunch, and now I'm back at working. I didn't have any meetings today, so I did have that flexibility, and it actually has been really nice to kind of have a change-up in my routine.
Typically I have a kind of standard routine, but it felt really good. I got out of the house twice today. I worked, and then moved my body, and then worked, and then moved my body, and now working. I don't know; I just loved it. It ended up being such a great day because of that shift, and if I didn't let go of my frustration, I wouldn't have had that. So, I'm sharing that to say, like, you know, I still don't always do that, but I think it's a good lesson for us all to reflect on because we've all had those experiences before.
The other thing before we get into the episode I wanted to share is I met with my podcast production team this week. Shout out to Angela and Megan, who are amazing, and I'm really excited. We have some really, really, fun exciting things happening, some changes, some exciting news, like, I can't wait to tell y'all. Just a few more weeks and you'll find out, but I mean, I wish I could tell you now. I'm so, so excited. I can't wait. So, just keep tuning in. Keep your ears, you know, perked for the news. I can't wait until we can share what we're working on.
So, today we're talking about the ghost of workplace past. So, this is an episode about experiences where you leave a job, and your old boss keeps reaching out to you for help. And actually, also, if you start a new job and your new boss keeps asking you to reach out to your predecessors or keeps reaching out to your predecessors instead of working with you.
It's kind of like both very, very similar, and I've experienced both. I'm sure some of you have experienced one or the other. Some of you might have started a new job recently and are experiencing this, right? So, I've actually experienced this multiple times. Unfortunately, it seems very common in public health. My first job after my fellowship my supervisor, like, I got into this new job, left my fellowship, got into a new job, and my new supervisor at my new job kept asking me to contact the old staff person, like, the person in the position before me.
Who, by the way, left the organization completely, and not only that, got a job 3,000 miles away across the country. And that person was gone a whole month before I even started. So, it's not like I met them, and they trained me for a few days. There was no formal introduction. There was no crossover, nothing, and this prior staff person was not asked clearly before they left, or I started if they would be willing to do this.
Like, there was no agreement beforehand. They were not being offered compensation to help me. That was a struggle, right? And it felt really awkward, and we're going to talk about why, but I've also had the opposite experience where I've been the one who's left the job. My old boss continued to reach out to me with questions and asked for my help, and when this did happen to me, I had created before I left a brand new onboarding process for them.
I created a 30-page training document that had everything. Literally, everything that I had done, and the job required where everything was saved, where you did what, and how, like, even screenshots of images pointing to what you do. I organized all the files, like, everything was wrapped in a really nice, neat bow for the next person, and I still had it happen where my old boss kept reaching out to me, and I have also had neither of those happens, right?
I've started jobs where my new boss never asked me to contact my predecessor, even if there were lingering onboarding or training questions or needs. I've also left jobs where my old boss never bothered me for more information even if I didn't leave everything all neat and tidy. So, I want to be very clear what we're talking about today, and what we're going to walk through is not dependent on what you did or didn't do for the job or the position before you left, right?
Like, that doesn't matter if you create a training manual for them or you did train the new person like, that really doesn't matter, right? That's not your job. That's the job of your supervisor at that time or the team or the organization, and if you did that like I've done in the past, that's very nice of you. That's great, but it's not your job, right. It's not your responsibility.
What we're going to be talking about today is not dependent on if your new job has a new onboarding or training process. If they don't have that, that's on your boss. Right? Not the old employee. So, let me explain a little bit further. So, let's say you're in a situation where your new boss tells you to reach out to your predecessor, the person in your role before you. When this happens, I bet what's going on in your mind; you're wondering if they're questioning your ability, right?
You start to feel like you have to prove yourself. You are worried you're being compared to this person. You're worried about bothering that prior staff person. Right? And in the other scenario where you leave a job, and your old boss won't stop bothering you, probably what's going on in your mind is, well, I don't want to burn bridges. Right? We're always told don't burn bridges, which may be a whole other episode because of like terrible career advice.
And in this situation, you're probably also wondering, like well, I don't know how to say no, and I need to say it nicely, and they probably really need the support, and I feel bad, right? And also, you might be feeling frustrated, right? In that job you just left, you probably experienced if your old boss is asking you after you left to keep helping them, unpaid. Just off the clock, then I probably would guess that while you were in that job, your boss was asking you to do things that were really their responsibility or repeat things and explain things over and over that you've already explained.
That they just weren't fully listening or not fully engaged, right? So, then it's just frustrating that it keeps going even after you leave. In both of those scenarios, the way we react to our boss, old or new, asking us about those things or to do those things is we focus on ourselves, right? Notice how I said, well, you might be worried you have to prove yourself or don't know how to say no? Right?
That's focused on you, and normally I'm very much about like, focus on you and what you can do and all of that, but in this scenario, I actually think you have to step away from that for a little bit because you're spending so much time worrying about what it means about you and what they're going to think about you and how to respond and what to say, and how to say and what to do. And I actually think this is the wrong place to be spending your energy initially, right?
I think there is a place and time to decide, okay, well, how do I want to respond? What do I want to do? All of that, for sure, we're not getting rid of that completely, but let's not start there. We need to step back and let's get clarity on why your boss is doing that in the first place. It's not because the person in your role before you was better at the job than you are, and it's not because the organization is falling apart without you there. It is because your new or old boss, your boss, is in their own lack.
What is driving their behavior, their actions to ask you to contact the old staff person who doesn't work at the organization anymore to help you is a result of your bosses own insecurity, and their self-doubt, and their lack of confidence in themselves. Your boss doing this and asking you to take this action is not because they think your predecessor is better than you. It is because they don't believe. They, the boss, have the ability to lead you.
It's not because of you. It's because of their lack of confidence in themselves as a leader and manager. They're thinking, oh, shit, I don't have the experience or skills to teach you this. I don't know how to do this. They're probably even thinking I should, right? Like I should have known this, or they explained this to me so many times or whatever it may be, and they feel shame.
They feel ashamed because they think they should know which p.s. they should. But they feel this shame because they don't believe they can figure it out, and instead of addressing their shame, they deflect it by telling you to go ask the old staff person instead. And how do we know this is coming from insecurity? Because a leader who is confident or secure in their ability as a leader or manager would instead respond with, okay, I actually don't have the experience or skills to teach you this.
And maybe they wouldn't say this to you, but like this would be happening in our mind. So, they recognize they don't have the experience or skills, but they then would go to a place of how can I learn it? To then teach this new staff person. Or how can I set it up so we can learn it together? Or who within our organization who still works here, right, that's part of their job, and they're compensated, can I engage to help my new staff replacement?
And even further, if I'm bringing on someone else in the organization to help, how can I compensate them or recognize them for their time or negotiate some work getting off their plate for it. That is a huge difference. That response doesn't come from shame. That comes from confidence. And not confidence because they know everything, confidence because they trust themselves to lead, manage, and to find a solution that is best for you. Best for the new staff person. Best for the team.
Now, if the best solution was that the prior staff person really truly was the only person with that knowledge and they needed to share it with the new hire documented or trained, which is very rare, to be honest, but let's just give that a little air space for a second.
Then, an informed, attentive, and thoughtful leader who is doing their job with either (A) have worked with that staff person to make sure that information was documented, or training was put together prior to their departure. Or (B) when they realized, oh, that didn't happen, and that's a mistake, and we should have made sure that occurred. They would figure out another solution.
Maybe they would reach out to the prior staff person to make it happen, but it would also come with recognizing that they're asking them to do something that's not their job anymore, offering to compensate for their time to train you or train themselves, and also be okay with a no. And expect a no, probably.
Let's go to the other scenario, right, so we've talked through what's going on in your boss's mind. You've started a new job, and they keep asking you to reach out to the old staff person for help. So, let's go to the scenario where you've left your job, but your old boss keeps contacting you. Again, this is not because you leaving that organization meant you left them high and dry, and they're falling apart without you, or they need your help to not fall apart.
It is because your old boss is insecure about their ability to lead to make decisions to do their job during a transition to onboard a new staff member and a new employee. And likely, they felt this way when you still worked there. They likely were already insecure about their management skills. Insecure that they weren't as involved as they should be or as helpful to you as they could be, didn't know as much as they thought they should.
Instead of learning how to be a better leader when you're around, they just let you do all your own leading. So, when it came time for you to leave and the transition to happen, someone else to come on board, your old boss did not have the skills or confidence to actually lead that transition. And instead of stepping up to overcome that personal challenge of theirs, not yours, they again deflect and turn to you.
There's also a big difference here between someone who comes to you and says, hey, I realize that we are woefully underprepared for this transition. Can I pay you this amount of money for X amount of hours to help us with a specific task, and then name the actual specific tasks. Like, really thought out, what is needed, not the extra, like, what is the need? How much time will this take? What are we going to compensate, like, be very specific, and then respect and honor your answer, whether yes or no?
That is very different than someone emailing you or texting you asking you for a one-off questions or favors or to meet with them or take a minute of your time, over and over again. Okay? Do you see how these two experiences are just different sides to the same coin? The coin is the boss deflecting their own feelings of shame, insecurity, lack, and not doing their job of leading onto someone else. And why is this important for you to see?
One, I want you to see this is not about you. It's not about your worth or your ability. You spending all of your time worrying about if they don't have confidence in you, like the old staff member better, or worrying about burning bridges or how you can say no without offending them is truly a waste of your time. It really is because it's not about you.
You are in this circumstance, not because you're not good at your new job or too good at your old job, but because of your boss. Their insecurity and their lack of confidence of their self-doubt, and recognizing this and seeing it for what it is will give you so much more power and confidence back. Power to make a decision that is actually rooted in what you want to do, recognizing that whatever you decide, your boss will still feel insecure, and your boss will still be in a lack of their own leadership skills. Nothing you do, no matter what you say, if you agree to help out or not, or agree to reach out to the old staff person or not, will fix their lack of confidence, their insecurity, and their leadership skills.
Only they can do that, and you trying to make a decision based on accommodating them and their insecurities rather than what you want and your time and what you need isn't going to serve you. Make a decision based on what you want, and here's how you decide what to do. Ask yourself what are the benefits for me in each course of action, right?
What's the benefit for me if I say yes? What's the benefit for me if I say no? And ask yourself what are the challenges that may come up in that decision for me? So, what are the challenges if I say no? What are the challenges if I say yes, and remember frame this question and your answers about you, not about your boss or the other staff person. Do not answer this based on how your boss will react to you.
So, let's go through an example. Let's say you decide not to contact your predecessor when your boss asks you to, and you decide I'm just going to figure it out on my own. The benefits to that might be you don't have to keep bothering someone you don't even know, you get to stand in your belief you have the ability to learn it, you get to push yourself to find people in the organization who might be able to help you, and create relationships with new coworkers, and you get to figure out a way that works for you.
The challenges might be you might not get the answer, or it might take longer to get the answer. Your boss might keep telling you to go ask the prior employee. They might keep doing that, like, you can't control that, and you'll have to manage your mind about your own self-doubt, which will come up and about your boss's behavior, which you're going to have to manage your mind about your boss's behavior either way, so that's good for you to know.
So, then you review the benefits and challenges based on the example I just walked through, those benefits and challenges; the question then becomes, do you want to take that course of action? And do this with every possible course of action. It doesn't have to be an all-day activity, but give your brain some air space to do this and focus it on you and remind yourself when those thoughts of like burning bridges or maybe they're comparing me, that's, no.
That is not the course of action. Remind yourself that your boss is insecure about their own skills and there in their own lack, which is why they're asking you to do this, and then come back to you and what you want. No matter the course of action you take, no matter the decision you make, whether to contact the old employee or not, whether to agree to help your old boss or not. Your boss will still be the same. Right?
They will still have the same thoughts and the same beliefs and maybe take the same actions. They might still think you should be contacting the old staff person. Again, not because this is the right decision, but because they are avoiding dealing with their own leadership lack. Do not make a decision based on the self-doubt of your boss. Based on the self-doubt your boss has about themselves and their ability to lead.
That will never, ever serve you. Make a decision based on what is best for you. What is the best use of your time of your energy? What has the better short-term or long-term outcomes? What feels in line with your values? What is the best for your work? Either way, no matter what you decide, there will be challenges. Either way, your boss won't change, so make a decision based on you.
There's no right or wrong decision. There's just a decision you make right now based on the reasons you have right now, and you can always make a different one later for different reasons. So, for me, when I started that job after my fellowship and I was constantly being asked to reach out to the old staff person, I did do that at first. I did reach out and email them, and honestly, it's not because I was making that decision for me. I wasn't being intentional at all.
I was making that decision from my own insecurity that my boss was asking me to do it because they didn't believe in me. Or I was getting compared, and I have to prove that I can do it and that's the best way is by reaching out to the old person. Not old person, you know what I mean, the prior staff person. And once I realized this, once I realized that the reason they were asking me to reach out was more about their own insecurity, about their ability to lead and help me, and that they would probably keep telling me to do that forever, probably the whole time I was in the job, at least the whole year.
Because that was driving their leadership lack, and that wasn't going to change. So, when I realized that, I decided I was going to stop reaching out to them. I'm just going to figure it out on my own because I could tell that person didn't really have the time or want to help and probably got a little frustrated that they kept being asked. So I just decided I can figure this out on my own, and I knew I could, and my boss still told me sometimes in our one-on-one's oh, just ask so and so.
Sometimes, I'd respond and say, okay, I will, and honestly, I just didn't and figured it out on my own. Sometimes when they said, oh, just ask so and so, I said, oh, I think I'd rather figure it out on my own, or I think they're really busy. And I said I wouldn't. Eventually, my boss stopped asking me to, but even if she didn't, it wouldn't matter because I made that decision for me. And on the flip side of that coin, when I left my job and was constantly being reached out to to continue supporting them, I sometimes didn't even email back.
I didn't even think twice about it. I was not worried about burning bridges or that they were going to hate me because I don't control their behaviors. And sometimes I did respond back, but way later, and very brief, and sometimes I wrote back and just said, no straight up. Sometimes I wrote back and said, yes, but here's my limited capacity. This is all I got. All of those decisions, later on, came from me, not my lack, not my own insecurity, not me worrying about burning bridges or what they're going to think.
But my confidence that I knew what was best for me and what was the right decision for me in that moment, and I had to grow in a way where I didn't worry about what other people thought as much. Right? I had to actually undo a lot of the really unhelpful, professional advice we get. The advice that always says worry about burning bridges, always say yes, and many others. I had to undo all of that bullshit and come to a place where it's like, no.
I recognize I don't control their behavior or what they think about me. The actions I take don't change their opinion or their behavior. I'm going to do what's right for me and put me first. I'm not going to worry about them or what they think or how they're going to react, and that took work to get to. It took changing my mindset and creating more confidence so I could do that. That's what I want you to take away from today.
Make a decision for you, and if you're struggling with that, recognize that part of that comes from learned behavior to not make a decision for you, right, and to make decisions based on what other people will think or what other people will do. Like, we're very socialized to do that, not just in the workplace, in other areas in our families. If you identify as a woman, you're probably socialized to do that and many other things.
Do not make a decision based on your supervisor's lack in their own self-doubt in their leadership skills. Make it a decision based on your confidence and what's right for you. And if you were in this situation on either side of this coin we've been talking about and you're really struggling with it, I can help you. I've been right through it. I've been on the side where I am constantly worried about what my boss will think and burning bridges and reacting to that, and I've worked my way through it and got coaching and changed my mindset to have full confidence to not even care.
So much so I don't even respond to an email, and I don't even have a thought in the world of if they're going to be mad at me or I burn a bridge. Like I feel confident, it's not going to change our relationship. And if you want that, if you want to work through that, then I can help you. Reach out to me. There is a link we'll share in the show notes for a consultation call, for a curiosity call if you're interested in coaching with me, what that would look like, and I'm happy to share that with you.
You can message me, email me, any way you want to connect. I'm happy to talk to you individually about how you do this work because it is so important. Right now, if you're experiencing this, you are so drained and exhausted, right? And it's really helpful for someone else to come in and help you. It's hard when you're so overwhelmed and exhausted and worried to have the mental energy to figure it out on your own, to create the confidence on your own.
That's why a coach is so helpful because you can come in as your true exhausted self, and that's okay because I'll do the heavy lifting, and I'll help you get there. The other thing you can do if you're not really in the space to commit to coaching or afford it or whatever it may be, join my email list. I give away so many free resources; actually, a couple of weeks back, we did a free coaching week. Exclusively only offered to people on my email list. Meaning you could have come, signed up for an hour of coaching with me, brought this exact issue, and said, hey, here's my situation. My boss keeps asking me to contact this old staff person.
I just started this job. It's really awkward. I don't know what to do, and we would have coached it out, and I would have helped you create that confidence to decide what's right for you. Then, take that action. So, we'll also leave a link to my email list in the show notes. So, the show notes are on my website. So, if you go in the little summary, wherever you listen to this, there's a link to the transcripts and the website, and you just go there, and there are many more details and resources and all of that stuff. So, set up a time to talk with me or join my email list so you can get help doing this.
Alright, y'all can't wait to talk to you next week. Have a great week and weekend, and get some rest. Bye, everyone.
Are you ready to make a change? Whether that's learning to love your job, making a career move, or anything in between, I can help. I'd be honored to coach you through figuring out what's next and navigating the steps to get there. So, head on over to mckoolcoaching.com/consult that's mckoolcoaching.com/consult to set up a time to chat and talk about how you can achieve the career of your dreams.
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