45. Work Boundaries in Public Health
What do you believe a boundary is for? How are you setting them up in your life? I’m willing to bet that you’re most likely completely wrong about their purpose and that you’re using them ineffectively right now. This episode might be a bit of a brain-scrambler and a 180 in terms of how you’ve thought or been taught about boundaries, so stay with me.
If you’re setting up boundaries in your life to keep toxic people out of your space, and you expect them to stay out because you’ve enforced them, you’re going to be disappointed, upset, and frustrated because this is simply not what boundaries are for. So then, what are they really for and how can we use them effectively?
Join me on the podcast this week to discover what the true purpose of a boundary is, and why the way you’re currently using them isn’t working. I’m showing you how they have nothing to do with other people and the requirements for setting up boundaries that help you live in alignment with your values.
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What You Will Discover:
The purpose of boundaries.
How boundaries have nothing to do with other people.
Why the way you’re setting boundaries right now isn’t working.
An indication that you haven’t set up your boundaries properly.
How I practice boundary setting now.
The requirements for setting an effective boundary.
Resources:
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Full Episode Transcript:
If you're two to five years out of your MPH degree, love public health, but find yourself secretly unhappy at work and maybe even thinking about quitting your job, then this is the podcast for you. I'm Marissa McKool, host of the Thoughts Are Your Root Cause podcast. Join me each week as I share tips, tools, and resources to help you have the career you've always dreamed of without any of the stress you are experiencing right now. Come along.
Well, hello everyone. Fancy meeting you here. I love talking to you all and I have some really exciting news I have been waiting to share. If you follow me on Instagram you already know this. But I’m so excited to share some personal news. I am engaged. What, what? This is particularly exciting for all the normal reasons that other people get excited about being engaged. But also, for me because when I initially started getting coached my coaching work, my thought work was around my work stress which is the thing I help you all with each week.
But after I cleaned up all of that I started getting coaching on my dating anxiety. And I worked on that for several years. And so, to be at this place where now I’m engaged is exciting because of the personal development that I went through to show up for myself, to change my mindset, to now get to this stage and achieve this goal that I have been wanting. So, I’m just so excited to share this with you all. And also, just show one of the outcomes that can come from doing mindset work. It’s truly just so exciting for me.
And it’s also related to today’s episode about work boundaries which you’re probably like, “Well, how does engagement relate to work boundaries?” But that’s because boundary is actually about showing up for you which is basically the whole premise of thought work and coaching, of learning how to show up for yourself. Whether that’s through undoing limiting beliefs you have, learning how to make better decisions, managing your mind, being able to process your emotions.
All the categories of coaching and thought work is about learning how to show up for you and that’s what a boundary is too. And in truth a boundary has little to do with someone else. And right now, you think a boundary is all about other people. And so, today’s episode is going to be kind of a complete 180 for some of you and how you have thought about boundaries. And I want you to listen to this episode like you’re in freshman year at college and there is a class called boundaries 101.
You might have some resistance, that’s totally fine. And if you have questions after this episode, things that you’re struggling with or examples that you don’t understand how this applies, I am more than happy to do a follow-up Q&A episode because I know this is such a shift in thinking about boundaries especially the way our culture and in helping professionals we talk about boundaries. So, I want to make sure you’re understanding and thinking about this in the best way for you.
So, if you have questions after this, email me, DM me, send them to me and I’m happy to do a Q&A episode to dive a little deeper. So let me start by explaining how most of you probably think about boundaries right now. You think of a boundary like it’s a fence. And it helps keep people with toxic, or bad, or harmful behavior out of your space. And the purpose is they stay out, and they stay outside the boundary or outside the fence, so they don’t affect you, so they don’t hurt you.
And when you set this boundary or you build this fence you expect them to stay out of your yard, to stay out of your space. You expect they won’t climb the fence, they won’t knock on the door. But then they do, and they climb that fence, they get over the boundary, they knock on the door. And you get so upset and then you find it harder and harder to set and hold boundaries because you end up chasing someone out of your yard, or over your fence, or trying to get them to change their behavior.
If this sounds familiar you are not alone. And what I just described, that’s how we’re taught about boundaries. In the helping professions this is how we talk about it, and in the broader society, and in families, and in friends groups, this is how we talk about boundaries. But what I just described is not a boundary. Like I said, it’s more of a fence and a wall.
And I’m going to make an analogy here that might be a little jarring to some of you, but I want you to stick with it because I actually think it’s a great analogy for what I’m trying to get you to see. Which is that the way you’re setting boundaries is completely not useful and it’s not working. And that’s because you’re making it all about the other person, and judging them, and thinking they’re bad and they’re wrong.
So right now, you make a boundary as if you’re building a fence or a wall around you and your space in hopes that people stay out. It’s like people who believe building a wall at the US Mexico border will keep other people from other countries from coming into the US. It doesn’t work. People will still come into the US. Maybe they’ll try to scale that wall, or dig a tunnel, or a million other ways. And a lot of people who are coming to the US don’t see a wall and just think because that’s there I’m not going to try anymore. Maybe there are some.
But there are a lot of people who will still try to come into the US even if they know it’s risky, even if they know they might get caught, even if they know they might get arrested. That’s because building a wall at the US Mexico border doesn’t change other people’s behavior. It may alter it a little bit, it may delay it, but it doesn’t make people change. It doesn’t force people to change.
So why do some people want to build a wall at the US Mexico border? Because they believe the behavior of people who are coming to the US via the border is wrong and that they’re a problem, that it’s a problem. And because of that belief, this is really important, because they believe that they believe the way to monitor that, to control that, to change that is to put up a wall and keep people out.
Now, yes, when we talk about immigration policies, and the wall, and all that, there’s so much racism, and privilege, and a whole host of other shit going on wrapped up there. This is not a podcast episode on immigration policies, or racism, or anything like that. This is just an example to show you how you’re trying to set up your boundaries right now. So, we’re not going to get into kind of all of that. I just want you to take this example and the purpose of it to illustrate how you are trying to set up a boundary for yourself and why it’s not working.
And kind of that example shows the way both your personal and professional boundaries, you’re setting them up. The way you treat boundaries in your life right now is as if you’re acting like a border patrol agent on your own life and your own space. Constantly scanning for harmful, or not approved behavior, trying to enforce consequences, trying to get people to change because you believe the other person is a problem, that their behavior is bad.
And in order to address it you try to keep them away from you and you build a wall that you call a boundary to keep them out of your space, so you don’t have to interact with them. Listen you all, this doesn’t work at the US Mexico border, and it doesn’t work in your life either. So, let’s talk about what a boundary actually is. A boundary is a decision you make about your behavior in certain circumstances. It is not a decision you make about other people’s behaviors.
A boundary is a decision you make to support you and your ability to live in the way you want by your values. It is not a decision you make to force other people to support you, or help you, or match your values, or make your decisions, or make their decisions the way you make yours. A boundary is not rooted in right or wrong, good, or bad. A boundary is a personal choice based on your wants and your values. Not a choice based on the belief that your wants and values are better than other people’s.
A boundary is about giving you and yourself guidelines, guiding lines for what you want to experience, what you want to be around in your life and how you will act, the decisions you will make, the choices you will make. It is not about creating a wall for other people to have to adapt to. Do you see what I’m pointing out here? A boundary is all about you and not the other person? So, let’s talk through an example. I want to talk through a personal example before talking about a workplace setting example. I think it can be helpful to talk about it in both.
So, my mom smokes cigarettes and she always has, I mean I think since she was a teenager. And it used to bother me so much especially as I got older and got into public health. I even remember at my MPH graduation I gave her a whole lecture about how she can’t smoke at the graduation because I thought it would be so embarrassing and it would invalidate me as a public health professional. And how do I explain to other people? And it’s terrible, and everyone will judge, and all this stuff.
Did she not smoke at my graduation? No, of course she smoked. And even my sister, I still find this funny to think about. In middle school, remember in the magazines they had truth campaigns, if you remember. And I think they were called truth campaigns about antismoking. And she’d rip them out and tape them all over the house and then she’d find my mom’s cigarettes and throw them out to try to get her to stop. And that was in middle school. I still find that kind of funny. But we both had these reactions in different ways because first we believed her behavior was wrong and bad.
And second, that we believed she had to change so we could feel a certain way, so we could experience something specific. And yeah, we always used, you are causing harm to our health argument a lot. And I know a lot of you are using that whether it’s smoking, or someone saying something that you don’t like, doing something you don’t like. You’re using the argument, you’re hurting me, you’re causing me harm.
And that sounds, it helps us feel righteous and that we’re doing the right thing by setting a boundary and trying to get someone else to change but it doesn’t work. And I’ll explain why, just wait. So, the way we used to, which I think is the way most of you are trying to set a boundary was this. I would tell my mom she can’t smoke in certain places. You can’t smoke in the house, or you can’t smoke outside if I’m out there. And when she did I would get really upset and yell at her.
And when she smelt like cigarettes and came near me I’d make a big fuss and get upset with her and give her a lecture. I’d constantly tell her all the reasons that she needs to stop. For some of you maybe you would even send articles with stories about how people have died recently or go to other measures. And what was really happening is I was trying to force, manipulate and even coerce my mom to change her behaviors to meet my desires and my values. And we cloak this a lot in, “No, we’re doing it for them to help them, it’ll better their life.”
No, it is not my mom’s job to change her behaviors to match what I want. It is not her responsibility to follow my behavior rules so I can feel better. It is no one else’s responsibility to make your experience a certain way except you. It was and still is my responsibility to engage in actions that match my values. So let me tell you how I practice a boundary now that I’ve done this work and understand boundary setting much better.
So, I first of all did mindset work to not judge my mom for smoking, not think she’s a bad person or a terrible person, not judge her for choosing that. I don’t judge her. I don’t think it’s wrong. I don’t think it’s morally right or wrong. It’s a choice I personally will not make but I no longer judge her for it. So that’s the first thing I did. And then I made a decision about what do I want to do when she does smoke near me. So, if my mom is smoking somewhere, anywhere, I just leave that space. I don’t make a big fuss. I don’t yell at her because there’s no need to.
I’m not trying to change her, and I don’t think she’s wrong, and I don’t think what she’s doing is wrong. And if she does come near me smelling like smoke, I move away. I just don’t want to smell that. Again, I do not judge her. I do not get mad at her. I do not try to make her feel bad. If I invite her to stay at my place I expect her to smoke and I don’t tell her, “Hey, you can’t smoke if you come down here.”
I may ask her to smoke outside which she does when I ask her but even if she didn’t because I can’t control her behavior, I would have a plan for what I would do if that would happen and not out of trying to shame her or force her to change. And I follow my own boundaries for what I will do each time, not to try to manipulate her to stop or try to make her feel bad but for me because I have decided I don’t want to be around smoking. I’m not mad at her for smoking. I don’t think I’m better than her because I don’t smoke.
I don’t believe she’s a bad person or her behavior is morally wrong. I don’t get shocked or upset by it. In fact, I expect it. And that is a boundary. It’s about me, what I want to be around, why I want to, and what I will do to make it happen without judgment for the other person. It’s not about my mom. And the same goes for you setting boundaries, it’s about what you want. It’s about you, why you want it and what you will do without judgment for other people. It’s not about other people.
Right now, you are making a boundary based on the belief that someone else’s behavior is a problem, is wrong, is bad, is harming you. When you believe their behavior shouldn’t be happening you will always resist them and resist what they’re doing. And you will try to change them and change their behaviors and you will focus all your energy on them because you believe they are the problem. So, if they’re the problem, of course to fix it they have to change.
And so, in your brain you rant and rage about them and their behavior. In your actions you try to force, or coerce, or manipulate them to change. You make it mean a whole host of things if they don’t change, that they don’t care about you, they don’t care about your health, they don’t care about themselves, they’re a terrible person, all these other things. This is a complete waste of your mental and emotional energy. There is no ‘problem’ to solve. They are not a problem, their behavior’s not a problem.
It's not about solving a problem, it’s about first not judging them and then second, deciding what you want to experience in life, what you want to be around. And then making decisions and choices for that, for you.
So, let’s take a work example now. Let’s say you have a coworker who comes into your office and interrupts you while you work several times a day. And they come in gossiping and complaining about work and other people. I mean many of us know people like this. And you might be this person to be honest.
Your boundary will fail if you set it from the place of believing their behavior is wrong, toxic, or hurting you. Or from believing they’re a terrible coworker, I need to change their behavior because you’re setting a boundary based on the belief that they are the problem, and they need to change. But the boundary is based on them, that they are wrong, they need to change, they’re the problem. And if you make a boundary from that place maybe you’ll decide to shut your door and just hope that that communicates that they can’t come in and that’s your boundary they can’t cross.
And then when they still knock and come in without you saying, “Hey, come in,” you get mad. And even if you tell them, “Hey, when my door is closed I’m trying to concentrate.” You expect that you telling them is going to make them change, not come on, not knock. And then guess what, they don’t change, they come knock or they just come right in. And maybe they even say, “Sorry, one more thing, I know you’re busy.” And then you get mad and upset.
And here’s the irony, more often than not you then end up ranting, and complaining, and gossiping about them to other people because you’re so upset and thinking about them and how they’re the problem. Which means you end up doing the same thing that they are doing that you don’t like that they do. And that is because you’re expecting them to change and of course they’re not going to change. People don’t change unless they want to.
You can’t force other people to change for any reason, and especially not for you. When you try to force people to change for you, that’s manipulation. Here is what a true boundary would look like. Doing the mental and emotional work first, no longer believe they’re a bad person for their behavior, or that they’re toxic, or that they’re a problem. To not believe that things would just be better if they change, to not think you’re better than them. You have to do this work first and neutralize your beliefs about them and you.
Then decide on purpose what you want to do when that behavior or that experience occurs. And expect that they’re going to keep doing what they’re doing because that’s how humans work. So, let’s say you decide to close your door and any time they come in you tell them, “Hey, I can’t talk, I’m busy.” And you have to commit to that and do that every time, not out of anger or judgment but for you. And then what are you going to do if they continue to talk? Maybe you decide I’ll get up and walk them out, okay, you have to do that every single time without anger and judgment.
And then when they come back and come back in because they will, you have to do it all over, tell them you can’t talk, get up and walk them out and again, and again, and again without anger, without blame, without judgment, with love for them and for yourself, and acceptance. Because it’s not about what they are doing. It’s about what you are doing for yourself. It’s not about making them change, it’s about you doing what you need.
How do we know that boundaries have nothing to do with people’s behaviors being wrong, toxic, a problem, bad? Because people make boundaries for many reasons. One person might make a boundary about smoking cigarettes while other people don’t even care if someone smokes near them, even if they don’t smoke. One person might make a boundary about not going to events where alcohol is served. And other people might only go to events where alcohol is served.
Some people might make boundaries about not socializing with people who aren’t vaccinated, and other people don’t care. An effective boundary isn’t made on the basis of someone else being the problem and needing to change because when you make a boundary that is based in someone else being the problem and they need to change you waste so much mental and emotional energy.
When you make a boundary for yourself that has nothing to do with believing someone else is a problem and they need to change and everything to do with what you’re going to do for yourself, for your needs. You don’t have to spend energy thinking about the other person being upset about the other person. You focus on you and your choices, and your behaviors, and what is in your power, and not on measuring someone else’s goodness, or moral righteousness, or making it mean a whole host of shit that they won’t change.
A boundary is about loving you, you loving you and accepting the other person without judgment, accepting other people can do whatever they want and it’s not a problem. Loving yourself to know you have a choice whether you want to be around a certain action or experience or not. Boundaries are not about controlling someone else. And this is how you know when you haven’t set a boundary properly. You feel like you’re in a battle trying to control them, trying to change them, getting upset that they aren’t changing, and it just feels exhausting.
That’s when you’re setting a boundary from a place of expecting someone else to change and not for yourself. A true boundary is about continually showing up for you no matter what someone else does. And how you know when you haven’t set the boundary properly is actually you’ll start falling through on enforcing the boundary for yourself. You give up because you’re forcing the boundary, expecting someone else to change and then they don’t change. That’s because that’s not the way to set the boundary. A boundary is for you and what you will do.
And this goes for any boundary, if you decide you aren’t working in the evenings and you set a boundary, it’s for you not to check or respond to your emails after 5:00pm. It is not for other people to stop emailing you at night. They are going to email you, that’s not a problem. They don’t need to change. The boundary is for you and how you’re going to spend your mental and emotional energy in the evening.
If you decide you don’t want to be around your boss when they start yelling in meetings, that boundary is for you whether you set the boundary that you’re going to leave the meeting or you’re going to just stop going to the meetings altogether. Not so your boss changes, not as a protest but for you. And listen, this is so important. This does not mean when you set a boundary properly that you are condoning someone else’s behavior. People conflate all the time, condoning and no longer giving someone else your energy and no longer trying to change them.
We think, well, if you accept someone who they are and that they’re not going to change then that means you condone what they’re doing, or that means you agree with what they’re doing. No, you can decide you don’t agree with someone else’s behavior, and you would not choose to engage in that and still not try to change them. You can decide you’re setting a boundary for you and have no expectation for someone else to change and still know you are not and would not choose to engage in their behavior and yelling like they are.
You can set a boundary even for something like your boss yelling without making it mean they’re a horrible person and they should go to hell, and they are the problem. You set the boundary for you and what you want to be around. It doesn’t mean that you would choose to yell. And it’s the same for any other boundaries at work.
So, in summary, in short, setting an effective boundary requires the following. Not judging another person for their choices or behaviors. Accepting someone else’s choices and behaviors fully. Believing a 100% they will not change and that’s okay. And knowing it’s not your job to get them to change. And then deciding what you want to experience, what you want to be around without judgment for you or the other person. And then decide what you will do when someone else makes a choice or behavior you have decided you don’t want to be around.
And then continue to hold your own boundary by taking your actions you have set for yourself. A boundary is not a way to get someone else to change. It is no one else’s responsibility but your own to create the experience you want to have. That is why a boundary is about you and not someone else. It is about your actions, and you making decisions, and you following through and not someone else changing.
So, here’s one more example of a boundary I really like to use, it’s again out of work. But I follow a lot of folks on Instagram who kind of are social justice or that kind of account, whether it’s education, or advocacy, antiracism, to understanding kind of the unethical roots of the foster system, to a whole host of other things, that spans the spectrum, but I follow a lot of accounts. And a lot of them are just individuals who are doing this work.
And these are people who are creating content for others to consume, Instagram obviously the content is free. And clearly they put a lot of work into it. And I see a lot of these people and I just, I hope some of you all are listening, if you do this work because setting a boundary properly is going to save you so much energy. But I see a lot of these accounts, these people post a lot basically about their followers not respecting their boundaries.
So maybe they have set boundaries, and the way they set the boundary is, “Hey, if you follow me, do not DM me. I will not answer your question. Do not ask questions in comments, I will not answer them. I’m not doing any additional content for free, that’s emotional labor. If you want something here are the ways you can pay me.” And there’s nothing wrong with setting boundaries of being this is the amount of free content I’m willing to do. I’m not doing anything else. I’m not putting in emotional labor to explain certain things to certain people, totally fine.
But I see these folks set the boundaries from the place of you need to do this. Hey, follower, you need to not DM me. Hey, follower, you need to not ask questions in the comment. Hey, follower, you need to not ask me to do this. And then of course what do their followers do? Some of them still DM them, and still ask questions in the comment. And then when that continues to happen, organizers of these accounts, they get so upset about it. They post about it. They go on their Instagram Lives, they explain why it’s such a problem and how it’s harming them.
And they get so caught up in trying to spend so much energy explaining and getting their followers not to do that, not to behave a certain way. And it’s so much mental and emotional energy wasted. And here’s the irony again, they actually end up doing emotional labor in that moment by trying to explain and force people to change. This is where a boundary would absolutely be really helpful. A boundary in this circumstance is not for followers on Instagram, it is for the accountholder.
So, if your boundary is I’m not going to do additional content for free outside of what I am choosing to do. Or I’m not going to answer questions and put in that emotional labor. Okay, you set that for yourself. So, when someone DM’s you, or puts a question in the comments, which they will do, what do you want to do to honor your boundary, to honor your space? Maybe it’s not respond at all. Maybe it’s just send a link to a post that explains where they can get those answers. It doesn’t matter what it is but it’s about you.
It's not about getting the followers to change their behaviors, and not message, and not question. It’s about what am I going to do when that happens because it is going to happen, I cannot change people. You can set a boundary of I’m not going to answer questions to my DMs but from a place of I know other people will still message me. And it’s not a problem if they message me, they aren’t bad for messaging me. And from there, following through on what you will do for yourself, maybe it’s not responding.
And doing that every single time and not trying to police other people’s behaviors, not spending your mental and emotional energy complaining about them in your head or to others.
So, here’s the truth, you don’t need to tell people about your boundary. You can, like in the Instagram example, you can have a post that says, “Hey, I’m putting out this content, if you DM me, if you question in the comments, I’m not responding.” You can totally do that but honestly you don’t have to. And the same goes for work examples. You can say, “Hey, I’m not responding after 5:00pm.” But you don’t have to because the boundary is not about the other people.
Alerting other people, a lot of times we do that with the expectation they will change, they will learn the boundary we’re setting, and they will change. They’re not going to change, you all. The boundary is for you. So more often than not, it doesn’t even matter if you tell them because it’s about you and what you will do. It doesn’t matter if someone else is alerted that you’re not responding to evening emails because it’s not about them not sending you an email, it’s about you not responding.
It's not about Instagram followers knowing that you’re not going to answer questions in DMs. It’s about you not responding if someone sends you a question. And you can tell people but if you do tell people about your boundaries, be very, very clear with yourself and honest that you’re not telling them your boundary with the expectation that they will follow, and they will change, and they will ‘respect’ it. Remember, it’s your responsibility to follow through on your own boundary.
The other people do not need to know your boundary for you to enforce the boundary because the boundary is not about enforcing behavior change in other people. It’s about enforcing decision-making and choices for you and how you will show up. And here’s the other truth, once you start setting boundaries correctly like this, you honestly won’t have as many because you’ll learn how to show up for yourself, where you manage your mind and don’t judge others. And a lot of the things you thought were a problem in the past aren’t problems anymore and there’s no need to set boundaries.
Now, there are two places where this is different. Children and staff you supervise and with those communities, with that situation I actually wouldn’t call them boundaries at all. What you set with children and staff you supervise are expectations, either as a parent or the boss. Because these people are your responsibility to some extent. As a parent you’re responsible for raising your child. As a supervisor you’re responsible for your staff’s work. So as a boss or a parent you set clear expectations and then when they aren’t met you address that.
So that’s completely different than boundaries. And if you all want an episode on that, setting expectations with children or staff, and how to do that, and how that’s different than boundaries. Let me know, I’m happy to do that. But that’s not what we’re going to answer today. So, I want you to chew on this boundary episode. And if you need to listen to it again, also I know it’s a bit longer than normal but it’s so, so important, do, listen to it and wrestle with it in your mind, and question it. And really do that work to let your brain kind of absorb it.
And if you have questions send them to me, I’m happy to answer them and maybe do a follow-up Q&A.
So, two more things before we go. I have a very exciting surprise coming up in April. I’m so excited, I can’t wait to announce it, I can’t share much yet. But I can tell you we are going to be doing some amazing giveaways, including prizes like a spa gift card, and books around increasing your rest and reducing your burnout, and even some fun clothing collaboration with other public health creators. So, I want to make sure you are the first to hear and get a chance to win.
So, the best way to do that is to join my email list, I always send everything first to the people on my email list. Those are my community, those are my peeps, if you’re already on it you know I love you, you know I send great stuff. We actually just did a free coaching week, exclusive to those on the email list. So, there’s lots of great stuff that only comes to the email list. The giveaway will be coming to the email list first. So, if you’re not on it, get on it, we’ll leave a link in the show notes.
The other way is to follow me on Instagram, I have a new handle, it’s publichealthcoach, so @publichealthcoach, you can follow me. Or follow me or connect with me on LinkedIn, just Marissa McKool, come connect, I share really great stuff on there too. And I’ll be sharing all the giveaway, exciting surprises, and announcements in April.
So, the second thing is if you’ve been listening for a while you already know but I want to remind you, the Burnout Recovery course is out and available right now. So many of you are burnt out, and stressed out, and I want you to get some support outside of the podcast, some concrete tools, and skills to help you recover. And it’s a three part mini course. You’ll learn the skills to reduce some of your pandemic stress. You’ll learn some skills to deal with a difficult boss. And you’ll learn how to reduce your workload.
They’re only 20 minute lessons delivered to your inbox over the course of three days. So, it’s really simple and easy to consume, it’s efficient, it’s helpful, it’s easy, what more would you want? And you deserve it, you all, you really do deserve to be able to reduce your burnout and your stress, and have some more time where you feel relief, and calm, and peace, and have that space. You deserve it, so give it to yourself and it’s completely free. I mean come on, what’s better? So mckoolcoaching.com/courses, we’ll also of course leave a link so you can check it out.
Thank you all so much for tuning in. I can’t wait to talk to you next week. Bye everyone.
Are you ready to make a change? Whether that's learning to love your job, making a career move, or anything in between, I can help. I'd be honored to coach you through figuring out what's next and navigating the steps to get there. So, head on over to mckoolcoaching.com/consult that's mckoolcoaching.com/consult to set up a time to chat and talk about how you can achieve the career of your dreams.
Well, hello everyone. Fancy meeting you here. I love talking to you all and I have some really exciting news I have been waiting to share. If you follow me on Instagram you already know this. But I’m so excited to share some personal news. I am engaged. What, what? This is particularly exciting for all the normal reasons that other people get excited about being engaged. But also, for me because when I initially started getting coached my coaching work, my thought work was around my work stress which is the thing I help you all with each week.
But after I cleaned up all of that I started getting coaching on my dating anxiety. And I worked on that for several years. And so, to be at this place where now I’m engaged is exciting because of the personal development that I went through to show up for myself, to change my mindset, to now get to this stage and achieve this goal that I have been wanting. So, I’m just so excited to share this with you all. And also, just show one of the outcomes that can come from doing mindset work. It’s truly just so exciting for me.
And it’s also related to today’s episode about work boundaries which you’re probably like, “Well, how does engagement relate to work boundaries?” But that’s because boundary is actually about showing up for you which is basically the whole premise of thought work and coaching, of learning how to show up for yourself. Whether that’s through undoing limiting beliefs you have, learning how to make better decisions, managing your mind, being able to process your emotions.
All the categories of coaching and thought work is about learning how to show up for you and that’s what a boundary is too. And in truth a boundary has little to do with someone else. And right now, you think a boundary is all about other people. And so, today’s episode is going to be kind of a complete 180 for some of you and how you have thought about boundaries. And I want you to listen to this episode like you’re in freshman year at college and there is a class called boundaries 101.
You might have some resistance, that’s totally fine. And if you have questions after this episode, things that you’re struggling with or examples that you don’t understand how this applies, I am more than happy to do a follow-up Q&A episode because I know this is such a shift in thinking about boundaries especially the way our culture and in helping professionals we talk about boundaries. So, I want to make sure you’re understanding and thinking about this in the best way for you.
So, if you have questions after this, email me, DM me, send them to me and I’m happy to do a Q&A episode to dive a little deeper. So let me start by explaining how most of you probably think about boundaries right now. You think of a boundary like it’s a fence. And it helps keep people with toxic, or bad, or harmful behavior out of your space. And the purpose is they stay out, and they stay outside the boundary or outside the fence, so they don’t affect you, so they don’t hurt you.
And when you set this boundary or you build this fence you expect them to stay out of your yard, to stay out of your space. You expect they won’t climb the fence, they won’t knock on the door. But then they do, and they climb that fence, they get over the boundary, they knock on the door. And you get so upset and then you find it harder and harder to set and hold boundaries because you end up chasing someone out of your yard, or over your fence, or trying to get them to change their behavior.
If this sounds familiar you are not alone. And what I just described, that’s how we’re taught about boundaries. In the helping professions this is how we talk about it, and in the broader society, and in families, and in friends groups, this is how we talk about boundaries. But what I just described is not a boundary. Like I said, it’s more of a fence and a wall.
And I’m going to make an analogy here that might be a little jarring to some of you, but I want you to stick with it because I actually think it’s a great analogy for what I’m trying to get you to see. Which is that the way you’re setting boundaries is completely not useful and it’s not working. And that’s because you’re making it all about the other person, and judging them, and thinking they’re bad and they’re wrong.
So right now, you make a boundary as if you’re building a fence or a wall around you and your space in hopes that people stay out. It’s like people who believe building a wall at the US Mexico border will keep other people from other countries from coming into the US. It doesn’t work. People will still come into the US. Maybe they’ll try to scale that wall, or dig a tunnel, or a million other ways. And a lot of people who are coming to the US don’t see a wall and just think because that’s there I’m not going to try anymore. Maybe there are some.
But there are a lot of people who will still try to come into the US even if they know it’s risky, even if they know they might get caught, even if they know they might get arrested. That’s because building a wall at the US Mexico border doesn’t change other people’s behavior. It may alter it a little bit, it may delay it, but it doesn’t make people change. It doesn’t force people to change.
So why do some people want to build a wall at the US Mexico border? Because they believe the behavior of people who are coming to the US via the border is wrong and that they’re a problem, that it’s a problem. And because of that belief, this is really important, because they believe that they believe the way to monitor that, to control that, to change that is to put up a wall and keep people out.
Now, yes, when we talk about immigration policies, and the wall, and all that, there’s so much racism, and privilege, and a whole host of other shit going on wrapped up there. This is not a podcast episode on immigration policies, or racism, or anything like that. This is just an example to show you how you’re trying to set up your boundaries right now. So, we’re not going to get into kind of all of that. I just want you to take this example and the purpose of it to illustrate how you are trying to set up a boundary for yourself and why it’s not working.
And kind of that example shows the way both your personal and professional boundaries, you’re setting them up. The way you treat boundaries in your life right now is as if you’re acting like a border patrol agent on your own life and your own space. Constantly scanning for harmful, or not approved behavior, trying to enforce consequences, trying to get people to change because you believe the other person is a problem, that their behavior is bad.
And in order to address it you try to keep them away from you and you build a wall that you call a boundary to keep them out of your space, so you don’t have to interact with them. Listen you all, this doesn’t work at the US Mexico border, and it doesn’t work in your life either. So, let’s talk about what a boundary actually is. A boundary is a decision you make about your behavior in certain circumstances. It is not a decision you make about other people’s behaviors.
A boundary is a decision you make to support you and your ability to live in the way you want by your values. It is not a decision you make to force other people to support you, or help you, or match your values, or make your decisions, or make their decisions the way you make yours. A boundary is not rooted in right or wrong, good, or bad. A boundary is a personal choice based on your wants and your values. Not a choice based on the belief that your wants and values are better than other people’s.
A boundary is about giving you and yourself guidelines, guiding lines for what you want to experience, what you want to be around in your life and how you will act, the decisions you will make, the choices you will make. It is not about creating a wall for other people to have to adapt to. Do you see what I’m pointing out here? A boundary is all about you and not the other person? So, let’s talk through an example. I want to talk through a personal example before talking about a workplace setting example. I think it can be helpful to talk about it in both.
So, my mom smokes cigarettes and she always has, I mean I think since she was a teenager. And it used to bother me so much especially as I got older and got into public health. I even remember at my MPH graduation I gave her a whole lecture about how she can’t smoke at the graduation because I thought it would be so embarrassing and it would invalidate me as a public health professional. And how do I explain to other people? And it’s terrible, and everyone will judge, and all this stuff.
Did she not smoke at my graduation? No, of course she smoked. And even my sister, I still find this funny to think about. In middle school, remember in the magazines they had truth campaigns, if you remember. And I think they were called truth campaigns about antismoking. And she’d rip them out and tape them all over the house and then she’d find my mom’s cigarettes and throw them out to try to get her to stop. And that was in middle school. I still find that kind of funny. But we both had these reactions in different ways because first we believed her behavior was wrong and bad.
And second, that we believed she had to change so we could feel a certain way, so we could experience something specific. And yeah, we always used, you are causing harm to our health argument a lot. And I know a lot of you are using that whether it’s smoking, or someone saying something that you don’t like, doing something you don’t like. You’re using the argument, you’re hurting me, you’re causing me harm.
And that sounds, it helps us feel righteous and that we’re doing the right thing by setting a boundary and trying to get someone else to change but it doesn’t work. And I’ll explain why, just wait. So, the way we used to, which I think is the way most of you are trying to set a boundary was this. I would tell my mom she can’t smoke in certain places. You can’t smoke in the house, or you can’t smoke outside if I’m out there. And when she did I would get really upset and yell at her.
And when she smelt like cigarettes and came near me I’d make a big fuss and get upset with her and give her a lecture. I’d constantly tell her all the reasons that she needs to stop. For some of you maybe you would even send articles with stories about how people have died recently or go to other measures. And what was really happening is I was trying to force, manipulate and even coerce my mom to change her behaviors to meet my desires and my values. And we cloak this a lot in, “No, we’re doing it for them to help them, it’ll better their life.”
No, it is not my mom’s job to change her behaviors to match what I want. It is not her responsibility to follow my behavior rules so I can feel better. It is no one else’s responsibility to make your experience a certain way except you. It was and still is my responsibility to engage in actions that match my values. So let me tell you how I practice a boundary now that I’ve done this work and understand boundary setting much better.
So, I first of all did mindset work to not judge my mom for smoking, not think she’s a bad person or a terrible person, not judge her for choosing that. I don’t judge her. I don’t think it’s wrong. I don’t think it’s morally right or wrong. It’s a choice I personally will not make but I no longer judge her for it. So that’s the first thing I did. And then I made a decision about what do I want to do when she does smoke near me. So, if my mom is smoking somewhere, anywhere, I just leave that space. I don’t make a big fuss. I don’t yell at her because there’s no need to.
I’m not trying to change her, and I don’t think she’s wrong, and I don’t think what she’s doing is wrong. And if she does come near me smelling like smoke, I move away. I just don’t want to smell that. Again, I do not judge her. I do not get mad at her. I do not try to make her feel bad. If I invite her to stay at my place I expect her to smoke and I don’t tell her, “Hey, you can’t smoke if you come down here.”
I may ask her to smoke outside which she does when I ask her but even if she didn’t because I can’t control her behavior, I would have a plan for what I would do if that would happen and not out of trying to shame her or force her to change. And I follow my own boundaries for what I will do each time, not to try to manipulate her to stop or try to make her feel bad but for me because I have decided I don’t want to be around smoking. I’m not mad at her for smoking. I don’t think I’m better than her because I don’t smoke.
I don’t believe she’s a bad person or her behavior is morally wrong. I don’t get shocked or upset by it. In fact, I expect it. And that is a boundary. It’s about me, what I want to be around, why I want to, and what I will do to make it happen without judgment for the other person. It’s not about my mom. And the same goes for you setting boundaries, it’s about what you want. It’s about you, why you want it and what you will do without judgment for other people. It’s not about other people.
Right now, you are making a boundary based on the belief that someone else’s behavior is a problem, is wrong, is bad, is harming you. When you believe their behavior shouldn’t be happening you will always resist them and resist what they’re doing. And you will try to change them and change their behaviors and you will focus all your energy on them because you believe they are the problem. So, if they’re the problem, of course to fix it they have to change.
And so, in your brain you rant and rage about them and their behavior. In your actions you try to force, or coerce, or manipulate them to change. You make it mean a whole host of things if they don’t change, that they don’t care about you, they don’t care about your health, they don’t care about themselves, they’re a terrible person, all these other things. This is a complete waste of your mental and emotional energy. There is no ‘problem’ to solve. They are not a problem, their behavior’s not a problem.
It's not about solving a problem, it’s about first not judging them and then second, deciding what you want to experience in life, what you want to be around. And then making decisions and choices for that, for you.
So, let’s take a work example now. Let’s say you have a coworker who comes into your office and interrupts you while you work several times a day. And they come in gossiping and complaining about work and other people. I mean many of us know people like this. And you might be this person to be honest.
Your boundary will fail if you set it from the place of believing their behavior is wrong, toxic, or hurting you. Or from believing they’re a terrible coworker, I need to change their behavior because you’re setting a boundary based on the belief that they are the problem, and they need to change. But the boundary is based on them, that they are wrong, they need to change, they’re the problem. And if you make a boundary from that place maybe you’ll decide to shut your door and just hope that that communicates that they can’t come in and that’s your boundary they can’t cross.
And then when they still knock and come in without you saying, “Hey, come in,” you get mad. And even if you tell them, “Hey, when my door is closed I’m trying to concentrate.” You expect that you telling them is going to make them change, not come on, not knock. And then guess what, they don’t change, they come knock or they just come right in. And maybe they even say, “Sorry, one more thing, I know you’re busy.” And then you get mad and upset.
And here’s the irony, more often than not you then end up ranting, and complaining, and gossiping about them to other people because you’re so upset and thinking about them and how they’re the problem. Which means you end up doing the same thing that they are doing that you don’t like that they do. And that is because you’re expecting them to change and of course they’re not going to change. People don’t change unless they want to.
You can’t force other people to change for any reason, and especially not for you. When you try to force people to change for you, that’s manipulation. Here is what a true boundary would look like. Doing the mental and emotional work first, no longer believe they’re a bad person for their behavior, or that they’re toxic, or that they’re a problem. To not believe that things would just be better if they change, to not think you’re better than them. You have to do this work first and neutralize your beliefs about them and you.
Then decide on purpose what you want to do when that behavior or that experience occurs. And expect that they’re going to keep doing what they’re doing because that’s how humans work. So, let’s say you decide to close your door and any time they come in you tell them, “Hey, I can’t talk, I’m busy.” And you have to commit to that and do that every time, not out of anger or judgment but for you. And then what are you going to do if they continue to talk? Maybe you decide I’ll get up and walk them out, okay, you have to do that every single time without anger and judgment.
And then when they come back and come back in because they will, you have to do it all over, tell them you can’t talk, get up and walk them out and again, and again, and again without anger, without blame, without judgment, with love for them and for yourself, and acceptance. Because it’s not about what they are doing. It’s about what you are doing for yourself. It’s not about making them change, it’s about you doing what you need.
How do we know that boundaries have nothing to do with people’s behaviors being wrong, toxic, a problem, bad? Because people make boundaries for many reasons. One person might make a boundary about smoking cigarettes while other people don’t even care if someone smokes near them, even if they don’t smoke. One person might make a boundary about not going to events where alcohol is served. And other people might only go to events where alcohol is served.
Some people might make boundaries about not socializing with people who aren’t vaccinated, and other people don’t care. An effective boundary isn’t made on the basis of someone else being the problem and needing to change because when you make a boundary that is based in someone else being the problem and they need to change you waste so much mental and emotional energy.
When you make a boundary for yourself that has nothing to do with believing someone else is a problem and they need to change and everything to do with what you’re going to do for yourself, for your needs. You don’t have to spend energy thinking about the other person being upset about the other person. You focus on you and your choices, and your behaviors, and what is in your power, and not on measuring someone else’s goodness, or moral righteousness, or making it mean a whole host of shit that they won’t change.
A boundary is about loving you, you loving you and accepting the other person without judgment, accepting other people can do whatever they want and it’s not a problem. Loving yourself to know you have a choice whether you want to be around a certain action or experience or not. Boundaries are not about controlling someone else. And this is how you know when you haven’t set a boundary properly. You feel like you’re in a battle trying to control them, trying to change them, getting upset that they aren’t changing, and it just feels exhausting.
That’s when you’re setting a boundary from a place of expecting someone else to change and not for yourself. A true boundary is about continually showing up for you no matter what someone else does. And how you know when you haven’t set the boundary properly is actually you’ll start falling through on enforcing the boundary for yourself. You give up because you’re forcing the boundary, expecting someone else to change and then they don’t change. That’s because that’s not the way to set the boundary. A boundary is for you and what you will do.
And this goes for any boundary, if you decide you aren’t working in the evenings and you set a boundary, it’s for you not to check or respond to your emails after 5:00pm. It is not for other people to stop emailing you at night. They are going to email you, that’s not a problem. They don’t need to change. The boundary is for you and how you’re going to spend your mental and emotional energy in the evening.
If you decide you don’t want to be around your boss when they start yelling in meetings, that boundary is for you whether you set the boundary that you’re going to leave the meeting or you’re going to just stop going to the meetings altogether. Not so your boss changes, not as a protest but for you. And listen, this is so important. This does not mean when you set a boundary properly that you are condoning someone else’s behavior. People conflate all the time, condoning and no longer giving someone else your energy and no longer trying to change them.
We think, well, if you accept someone who they are and that they’re not going to change then that means you condone what they’re doing, or that means you agree with what they’re doing. No, you can decide you don’t agree with someone else’s behavior, and you would not choose to engage in that and still not try to change them. You can decide you’re setting a boundary for you and have no expectation for someone else to change and still know you are not and would not choose to engage in their behavior and yelling like they are.
You can set a boundary even for something like your boss yelling without making it mean they’re a horrible person and they should go to hell, and they are the problem. You set the boundary for you and what you want to be around. It doesn’t mean that you would choose to yell. And it’s the same for any other boundaries at work.
So, in summary, in short, setting an effective boundary requires the following. Not judging another person for their choices or behaviors. Accepting someone else’s choices and behaviors fully. Believing a 100% they will not change and that’s okay. And knowing it’s not your job to get them to change. And then deciding what you want to experience, what you want to be around without judgment for you or the other person. And then decide what you will do when someone else makes a choice or behavior you have decided you don’t want to be around.
And then continue to hold your own boundary by taking your actions you have set for yourself. A boundary is not a way to get someone else to change. It is no one else’s responsibility but your own to create the experience you want to have. That is why a boundary is about you and not someone else. It is about your actions, and you making decisions, and you following through and not someone else changing.
So, here’s one more example of a boundary I really like to use, it’s again out of work. But I follow a lot of folks on Instagram who kind of are social justice or that kind of account, whether it’s education, or advocacy, antiracism, to understanding kind of the unethical roots of the foster system, to a whole host of other things, that spans the spectrum, but I follow a lot of accounts. And a lot of them are just individuals who are doing this work.
And these are people who are creating content for others to consume, Instagram obviously the content is free. And clearly they put a lot of work into it. And I see a lot of these people and I just, I hope some of you all are listening, if you do this work because setting a boundary properly is going to save you so much energy. But I see a lot of these accounts, these people post a lot basically about their followers not respecting their boundaries.
So maybe they have set boundaries, and the way they set the boundary is, “Hey, if you follow me, do not DM me. I will not answer your question. Do not ask questions in comments, I will not answer them. I’m not doing any additional content for free, that’s emotional labor. If you want something here are the ways you can pay me.” And there’s nothing wrong with setting boundaries of being this is the amount of free content I’m willing to do. I’m not doing anything else. I’m not putting in emotional labor to explain certain things to certain people, totally fine.
But I see these folks set the boundaries from the place of you need to do this. Hey, follower, you need to not DM me. Hey, follower, you need to not ask questions in the comment. Hey, follower, you need to not ask me to do this. And then of course what do their followers do? Some of them still DM them, and still ask questions in the comment. And then when that continues to happen, organizers of these accounts, they get so upset about it. They post about it. They go on their Instagram Lives, they explain why it’s such a problem and how it’s harming them.
And they get so caught up in trying to spend so much energy explaining and getting their followers not to do that, not to behave a certain way. And it’s so much mental and emotional energy wasted. And here’s the irony again, they actually end up doing emotional labor in that moment by trying to explain and force people to change. This is where a boundary would absolutely be really helpful. A boundary in this circumstance is not for followers on Instagram, it is for the accountholder.
So, if your boundary is I’m not going to do additional content for free outside of what I am choosing to do. Or I’m not going to answer questions and put in that emotional labor. Okay, you set that for yourself. So, when someone DM’s you, or puts a question in the comments, which they will do, what do you want to do to honor your boundary, to honor your space? Maybe it’s not respond at all. Maybe it’s just send a link to a post that explains where they can get those answers. It doesn’t matter what it is but it’s about you.
It's not about getting the followers to change their behaviors, and not message, and not question. It’s about what am I going to do when that happens because it is going to happen, I cannot change people. You can set a boundary of I’m not going to answer questions to my DMs but from a place of I know other people will still message me. And it’s not a problem if they message me, they aren’t bad for messaging me. And from there, following through on what you will do for yourself, maybe it’s not responding.
And doing that every single time and not trying to police other people’s behaviors, not spending your mental and emotional energy complaining about them in your head or to others.
So, here’s the truth, you don’t need to tell people about your boundary. You can, like in the Instagram example, you can have a post that says, “Hey, I’m putting out this content, if you DM me, if you question in the comments, I’m not responding.” You can totally do that but honestly you don’t have to. And the same goes for work examples. You can say, “Hey, I’m not responding after 5:00pm.” But you don’t have to because the boundary is not about the other people.
Alerting other people, a lot of times we do that with the expectation they will change, they will learn the boundary we’re setting, and they will change. They’re not going to change, you all. The boundary is for you. So more often than not, it doesn’t even matter if you tell them because it’s about you and what you will do. It doesn’t matter if someone else is alerted that you’re not responding to evening emails because it’s not about them not sending you an email, it’s about you not responding.
It's not about Instagram followers knowing that you’re not going to answer questions in DMs. It’s about you not responding if someone sends you a question. And you can tell people but if you do tell people about your boundaries, be very, very clear with yourself and honest that you’re not telling them your boundary with the expectation that they will follow, and they will change, and they will ‘respect’ it. Remember, it’s your responsibility to follow through on your own boundary.
The other people do not need to know your boundary for you to enforce the boundary because the boundary is not about enforcing behavior change in other people. It’s about enforcing decision-making and choices for you and how you will show up. And here’s the other truth, once you start setting boundaries correctly like this, you honestly won’t have as many because you’ll learn how to show up for yourself, where you manage your mind and don’t judge others. And a lot of the things you thought were a problem in the past aren’t problems anymore and there’s no need to set boundaries.
Now, there are two places where this is different. Children and staff you supervise and with those communities, with that situation I actually wouldn’t call them boundaries at all. What you set with children and staff you supervise are expectations, either as a parent or the boss. Because these people are your responsibility to some extent. As a parent you’re responsible for raising your child. As a supervisor you’re responsible for your staff’s work. So as a boss or a parent you set clear expectations and then when they aren’t met you address that.
So that’s completely different than boundaries. And if you all want an episode on that, setting expectations with children or staff, and how to do that, and how that’s different than boundaries. Let me know, I’m happy to do that. But that’s not what we’re going to answer today. So, I want you to chew on this boundary episode. And if you need to listen to it again, also I know it’s a bit longer than normal but it’s so, so important, do, listen to it and wrestle with it in your mind, and question it. And really do that work to let your brain kind of absorb it.
And if you have questions send them to me, I’m happy to answer them and maybe do a follow-up Q&A.
So, two more things before we go. I have a very exciting surprise coming up in April. I’m so excited, I can’t wait to announce it, I can’t share much yet. But I can tell you we are going to be doing some amazing giveaways, including prizes like a spa gift card, and books around increasing your rest and reducing your burnout, and even some fun clothing collaboration with other public health creators. So, I want to make sure you are the first to hear and get a chance to win.
So, the best way to do that is to join my email list, I always send everything first to the people on my email list. Those are my community, those are my peeps, if you’re already on it you know I love you, you know I send great stuff. We actually just did a free coaching week, exclusive to those on the email list. So, there’s lots of great stuff that only comes to the email list. The giveaway will be coming to the email list first. So, if you’re not on it, get on it, we’ll leave a link in the show notes.
The other way is to follow me on Instagram, I have a new handle, it’s publichealthcoach, so @publichealthcoach, you can follow me. Or follow me or connect with me on LinkedIn, just Marissa McKool, come connect, I share really great stuff on there too. And I’ll be sharing all the giveaway, exciting surprises, and announcements in April.
So, the second thing is if you’ve been listening for a while you already know but I want to remind you, the Burnout Recovery course is out and available right now. So many of you are burnt out, and stressed out, and I want you to get some support outside of the podcast, some concrete tools, and skills to help you recover. And it’s a three part mini course. You’ll learn the skills to reduce some of your pandemic stress. You’ll learn some skills to deal with a difficult boss. And you’ll learn how to reduce your workload.
They’re only 20 minute lessons delivered to your inbox over the course of three days. So, it’s really simple and easy to consume, it’s efficient, it’s helpful, it’s easy, what more would you want? And you deserve it, you all, you really do deserve to be able to reduce your burnout and your stress, and have some more time where you feel relief, and calm, and peace, and have that space. You deserve it, so give it to yourself and it’s completely free. I mean come on, what’s better? So mckoolcoaching.com/courses, we’ll also of course leave a link so you can check it out.
Thank you all so much for tuning in. I can’t wait to talk to you next week. Bye everyone.
Are you ready to make a change? Whether that's learning to love your job, making a career move, or anything in between, I can help. I'd be honored to coach you through figuring out what's next and navigating the steps to get there. So, head on over to mckoolcoaching.com/consult that's mckoolcoaching.com/consult to set up a time to chat and talk about how you can achieve the career of your dreams.
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