83. How We Rest: Social Connections, Little Joys, & Balance with Zoila Reyna
Today is the final episode in the How We Rest series, where all Fall, I have been interviewing different public health professionals, leaders, and entrepreneurs to hear how they get rest, how they overcome challenges with rest, and what rest means to them. They have shared so many incredible insights, tips, perspectives, and stories, so as a treat to wrap it all up, I’m welcoming the amazing Zoila Reyna to the show.
Zoila Reyna is the Founder and CEO of Public Health Hired, which focuses on sharing best practices and proven techniques for securing employment in public health. She also works full-time for a reputable healthcare company as a Senior Consultant in strategic planning for philanthropy and is an expert in community engagement, chronic disease management, mental health services, and scaling best practices. She joins me this week to share her journey into public health and what rest means to her.
In this episode, Zoila and I talk all things rest, social connection inside and outside of work, finding the little joys and getting laughter in your life, and figuring out what unique rest is to you wherever you are in your life. Whether you are a single parent, a college student, or working several jobs, whatever your circumstance, we’re here to help this week. We discuss why it often takes us so long to realize we don’t get enough rest, and how to start putting yourself and your needs first.
If you want to take this work deeper and learn the tools and skills to feel better, all while having my support and guidance each step of the way, I invite you to set up a time to chat with me. Click here to grab a spot on my calendar and I can’t wait to speak to you!
Do you find yourself overwhelmed, overworked, exhausted, and reactive because of your stress? Are you tired of never having enough time for what you want to do? My new course How The Patriarchy Robs You of Your Rest (and How to Get it Back!) is for you. You’ll leave the course with more emotional and mental rest than you have gotten in the whole of 2022. The course starts on January 9th, 2023, and enrollment opens on December 1st, 2022. Spots are limited, so be sure to sign up for the waitlist now.
What You Will Discover:
How Zoila discovered public health and how this led to her starting Public Health Hired.
Where you might be withholding permission for yourself to rest.
How social connection with people you enjoy helps you slow your stress responses.
Why you do not have to earn or justify your rest.
The importance of prioritizing rest in your life.
Resources:
Join the waitlist to be the first to know when my new course: How the Patriarchy Robs You of Your Rest (And how to get it back!) is out.
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80. How We Rest: Questioning Enough, Doing Less, and Emotions with Omari Richins
77. How We Rest: Community, Slowing Down, & Listening to Your Body with Kristi McClamroch
74. How We Rest: Sleep, Kindness, and Communication with Sujani Sivanantharajah
Public Health Hired: Website | Instagram | TikTok | LinkedIn
Full Episode Transcript:
Hey, you all, I’m Marissa McKool, and you’re listening to the Redefining Rest Podcast for public health professionals. Here we believe rest is your right. You don’t have to earn it, you just have to learn how to take it and I’m going to teach you. Ready? Come along.
Hi everyone, I am so excited you are here. Today is the final episode in the how we rest series, where all fall I have been interviewing different public health professionals, leaders, and entrepreneurs to hear about how they get rest. How they overcome challenges to rest, what rest is to them.
They have shared so many insights, tips, perspectives, and stories. And if you’ve missed any of those episodes, after this you can always go back and tune in to them. But today I have a very special treat to wrap it all up and finish it off, my new friend, Zoila Reyna, who is the founder of Public Health Hired, where she helps folks in public health find amazing jobs.
We talk all things rest from social connections inside and outside of work, finding the little joys and getting some laughter, to figuring out balance and what unique rest is to you where you are in your life. Whether you're a single parent, whether you're a college student, whether you have three dogs, whether you're working two jobs, whatever it may be. So without further ado, let's get into it.
Marissa: Hey, everyone, I seriously can't express how thrilled I am about this last episode in the How We Rest series. I'm so excited to have my new friend, Zoila, on to talk about the way she rests. Zoila, do you want to let everyone know who you are?
Zoila: Yeah. Hi everyone, hi Marissa. My name is Zoila Reyna, I am founder and CEO of Public Health Hired, which focuses on helping public health professionals get jobs, internships, or jobs, all alike. And I have been a public health professional for over 15 years now. I have worked in nonprofits, government, as well as private, and research and universities. And my passion is overall mental health, chronic disease management.
And in addition to working with all of you in public health for helping you find jobs, I also work for a health care organization for philanthropy and their strategies on serving community better. So thank you for having me, Marissa.
Marissa: Yeah, thanks so much for being here. You shared a little bit about kind of your focus areas and a little bit of your background, can you just share a little bit about like how did you discover public health? And how did that lead you not only to doing public health, but then starting Public Health Hired?
Zoila: Yeah, great question. I love the question of how you stumble on public health because everyone has their own unique story. And oftentimes, what I find is kind of what happened to me is I was working after graduate school, I have my background my undergrad in psychology from UCLA. And I didn't really know about public health yet. I just knew I wanted to do good, meaningful work. And like many who end up in public health I was pre-med actually.
Marissa: Me too. That was me too, yeah.
Zoila: So it's very common for folks who end up in public health were at one point interested in just the healthcare track, and that was me at one point. But I didn't pursue that at the end of the day. I ended up just wanting to throw myself into some nonprofit work, assuming that, you know, well, I can't go wrong with just serving a nonprofit organization.
And so when I graduated I basically just started job hunting for nonprofit work. And I found a great role with the American Lung Association and tobacco prevention. And it was like this really unique role where I got to work from home as a 22 year old, so I was like shocked.
Marissa: And this was like pre-pandemic, right?
Zoila: This was pre-pandemic, yeah. This was a while ago. And so I was like, “No way, I get to work from home and you guys trust me.” So anyways, I was lucky enough to be exposed to the world of tobacco prevention across California because of the network that they required me to be a part of, and the engagement and the stakeholders I had to basically rub elbows with.
So slowly and surely I kept having to work with public health agencies, local departments, county departments, city departments. And I was like, what is public health? Why am I always going to these public health offices? And so it was just like literally, you know, just over time I finally became curious enough to dive deeper into public health.
And thankfully, after being at that role for three years, I applied to UC Davis because I was up in Sacramento. I applied to UC Davis, their master's program, it's an accelerated one year program. And I got in so it kind of just worked in my favor that I was already in the field, didn't even realize it. I just thought I was like working with youth and doing nonprofit work, when in reality it was all under the umbrella of the California Department of Public Health Tobacco Control Programs Network.
Marissa: Right because public health is everything and everything is public health, right?
Zoila: Yes, yes. So I love that I was already in the world without having to like force myself into public health, I guess you could say. And then what was ironic is I thought that getting my master's would get me out of tobacco control, thinking like, oh, this will be my way of like expanding into other fields, other areas, maybe go back to more behavioral health, mental health, because that was my degree. And, like I said, my bachelor's in psychology.
So I just thought in general I would be able to pivot into something that was non tobacco control. But what was funny is when I was presenting my practicum, which was on migrant health, there was employees from the California Department of Public Health in the audience from tobacco control and I basically was recruited. I had someone come up to me after my presentation and say, “We would love to talk with you. If you're interested we have some positions open. And let us know if you want, you know, any help in the application process.”
So long story short, it took like 10 years to get out of tobacco control because I just, it wouldn't let me go. At that point I was already an expert and I had already done a lot of contract management for the state. So I’d had like, I would say, about four jobs in tobacco prevention, tobacco control. So I'm always happy to hear someone who comes from that background, because it's very near and dear to my heart.
But fast forward to the pandemic, just like everyone else we were in quarantine, we were isolated. I was a single mom, my son was a year and a half years old by then. And I was working at the health care company that I mentioned earlier. And I was at a cubicle, I had an office job just like normal life used to be.
And all of a sudden I was alone with my son. And my social circle got very small, I didn't see anyone. In fact, I even got COVID November 2020, I found out I couldn't have Thanksgiving, because I couldn't taste anything. So during that time, literally, when I was on my couch recovering, I just felt lonely. I felt alone.
And knowing that public health was coming out of everyone's mouth, it was just sort of like it kind of just hit me like a big just, I don't know what it was. It just sort of was like, why don't you try to see if anyone needs help with their employment? Like I'm alone, I have nothing else going on, there's no happy hours, there's no coffee, I don't get to go out to coffee with my colleagues anymore.
So it was almost like a mutual beneficial reason that I started Public Health Hired because I didn't want to be so alone and isolated knowing that there's others out there who I knew were struggling in this field to try to get a job and yet it was all over the news, like public health, public health, public health. Yeah, it just kind of worked out nicely. I started offering free webinars through Eventbrite and I actually had a huge response of individuals who were like, “Yes, I need your help. I want to talk to you about how do I do this for myself.”
So fast forward to now and I have a huge following, 4,500 on Instagram, over 2,000 on TikTok, and my mentees are strong. And even folks who don't purchase into my services, just the free materials that they get from what I offer, they say they make a lot of headway, and they get job offers just from even the free materials. So I'm super, super proud of everyone for just trusting me. And I'm so happy that the response has been what it is.
Marissa: That's amazing. And, for me listening to you, one of the most amazing things which is just totally like left field, is the fact that you have such a following on TikTok because I just have been diving into TikTok and I'm like, wow, this must be what like boomers feel like getting on Instagram. I'm like, I don't know what's going on here.
Zoila: TikTok is another animal, that's for sure, yeah.
Marissa: No, but truly, like we were talking before we recorded about there's a lot of other fields that have, you know, outside of recruiters more like companies, and coaches, and processes, and people who focus on helping individuals get jobs. But not as much focused specifically in public health.
And it is complex, like when I was navigating and when I was still full-time it's like different federal agencies have requirements, different state and city agencies have requirements. Like when I moved to the Bay Area, for the San Francisco Department of Public Health you had to go take a test. I had to take a test with 300 people and just to get on a waitlist to be notified about the job openings.
Zoila: Yeah.
Marissa: Like you wouldn’t know that, I only knew that because I had people who were able to tell me. Like so many different challenges and pieces to finding jobs in public health because each little sector in public health topically or skill wise or department wise is so different.
Zoila: Yes. Oh my gosh, you're speaking my language because that was one of the first talking points I had back when I first started the company, was like the key to getting hired is being aware of what industry are you going after? Are you going after government, nonprofit, universities, philanthropy, private, research? Because even those worlds have their own language within themselves, even if they're talking about the same thing.
So like, if you're applying, you know, if your passion is like nutrition, well they could all be spoken about differently depending on what industry you're going after? And, like you said, is it federal level? Is it state level? Is it’s the local level? So yeah, the complexities, you have to be aware of that level of detail to actually be successful in getting a job offer, absolutely.
Marissa: Yeah, totally. And we're going to talk about rest, and we can talk about rest in the context of like folks you work with. We were talking also, before we started recording, about like my partner has been looking for a job for a while and it's not restful and all that. But first, starting out with you, you have this business, you're also working, you’re a single parent. I'm just so curious, for you, where you are in your life, what does rest mean to you?
Zoila: That's such a great question. You know, I will be honest, when you ask me what rest means to me or how do I rest, it's taken me so long. I'm in my late 30s now, and it's taking me just about my entire adulthood to realize I don't rest enough, and I don't relax enough. I don't put myself first enough. And in a way, I guess, this pandemic has made all of us kind of have to take care of ourselves a different way and just you never know what's going to happen.
But to be honest, when I rest, it takes a certain level of proactiveness and energy. And I'll be honest, it has a lot to do with my childhood and coming from just my parents, who were from Mexico, and they had a lot of hardships. We were poor. We were six children, two adults living in a one bedroom house, so it was eight people in one bedroom at one point.
And it was just seeing through the hardships that I became such a survivalist, I guess you could say. So I've always known to work hard and do what it takes. And I was the straight A student, not because it was easy, but because there was no other way because I knew education was my way out into a better life.
So that kind of followed me throughout my adulthood. And I always worked when I went to college, not that I regret working, I think everyone should be working at some level when you're going to school. It's actually to your benefit if you're in the world of public health. You have to be busy, I guess you can say.
But my friends are always shocked. I used to like work night shifts, just like lots of strenuous jobs and I still volunteered on the weekends just to kind of feel like I needed to keep looking, keep finding, keep digging. I just felt so alone in my adulthood life, not because I didn't feel supported by my friends and family, but just because, like I said, I was just in a survival mode for so long.
And it's only been in my 30s where I feel like I finally can relax a little bit and let go and trust the world. I've been more aware of just the signs of this universe. You know, in a way I'm pretty spiritual and very much believe in God. But there's these whispers in life that happen that I think we don't pay attention to enough.
And so I've leaned more into that, to really follow my gut, my mental health, my physical health, and listen to, you know, I need to take time off. I need to actually take a break. I need to pay attention to my son more. My son's about to be four years old, I can't believe time has passed so much.
But rest, to me, really means just proactively letting go and not feeling like I have to be so ruthless and relentless 24/7. Because I don't need to survive anymore, I'm thriving. And I have to remind myself that so many times when I want to take a break. So that's where I come from with rest.
Marissa: I think you just brought up a lot of really good points. I mean, one is the way that we think about rest or productivity or working hard, is influenced from a very young age. You know, many of us get similar messages from living in a capitalistic society, living under the patriarchy, white supremacy. But also then we get other messages based on our family of origin, or where we went to school and what we learned, and what was going on in the media and all that.
And I can relate to your story a little bit. You know, my dad was a janitor and he'd get up at three in the morning to work every single day. And my mom was working at the casino, working till four in the morning. So I just saw them constantly working, my dad didn't have paid time off. And I had to undo a lot of that internalization.
Just because you get a degree, and you get a job that offers PTO doesn't mean automatically you're comfortable with taking it. Like it is kind of a habit, what we've learned about hustle and rest and all of those pieces. And also we live in a world where hustling and doing, doing, doing and being busy is rewarding and not as much rest and taking time and doing what you need to is.
Zoila: Correct. Yeah, I agree with all of that. And I admire that you come from that background because in a way, I mean, I don't think we take any of this for granted. In a way it almost like encourages us to find a more comfortable living situation, right? Like no one wants to be working at three, four in the morning. I mean, I saw my parents doing a lot of stuff that I would never want to have to do. Not that I'm judging what they had to do. But it can get scary, you know? And I just never wanted that for myself or for my children.
And so I'm very proud of being able to put myself through school, put myself through college. I get a lot of those kinds of questions as well, just because of the finances of like, oh my gosh, how do you pay for this? You know, all this talk about loan forgiveness is very near and dear to my heart. I can talk all about loans, that's a whole other question, that's a whole other discussion.
But I think when it comes to just our childhood, it does take time for you to realize, oh my God, that's why I think this way.
Marissa: Right. Yeah, totally.
Zoila: That’s why I don't just relax and chill out. And lately I've been really prioritizing my physical health and my energy. And just, I see my body differently. It's, you know, again, like I said, I have a son and it's just me and him for now. I do have a boyfriend and we're talking about moving in, but for now I'm still like single and I'm the one who has to take care of him when he's sick. And I'm doing a lot of the heavy lifting.
And I'm not complaining about it, but I don't have the luxury to, you know, like my sleep is so important to me, for example. Even just realizing how important my sleep is, or how important laughing is, like I want to laugh and relax. And like I used to go to comedy clubs. I just miss all of those things that I realized used to regenerate me and give me a different perspective in life and used to make me forget life.
And now that I am a mom, I think it's harder to even find more time to hang out and relax with people. So in a way, like I said earlier, Public Health Hired and my followers and my mentees, they're kind of my social life. You know, yes, it's a service. Yes, I'm helping you all in some really hard conversations. But it actually feeds my soul, and it feeds my heart, and it feeds my mind. And I feel like I'm actually there for individuals in a meaningful way.
To me, it's not like hard, I want to say. I'm not bragging, I'm just saying like I feed off of it. And in a weird way it's a combination of both rest and productivity. But because it's my social life almost, to me it almost benefits me more than I think the caller or the mentee on the other line. I'm like, “I don't see anybody. Hi, how are you? Who are you?”
Marissa: I mean, I don't think it's bragging. I think what you're bringing up is something that I really try to get across and I'm really passionate about, is that rest is unique to everyone. We've been sold this idea that rest is like the specific spa day, or traveling, or this or that. And I just don't believe in that at all because one, well, if those things aren't accessible to you, then that basically says you're fucked, which I don't think is true at all.
Zoila: Correct.
Marissa: But two, we all have different emotional, mental, spiritual needs, physical needs at different points in our life. So I think that makes a lot of sense. And it ebbs and flows, right? Like what rest is for a single mom might look very different than rest for someone who has chronic health issues, or someone who lives in a rural area, or someone who's working two jobs. And it's about figuring out in our stage of life right now, with the circumstances that we have and what we're doing, what is rest for us?
And I love that you said for you, it's really sleep and laughing and even your work and socializing. And for those of you listening, it's like those don't have to be your forms of rest. It's like what feels good to you, what feels restful to you might be totally different.
Zoila: Yes, absolutely. And I think you're right in that I think I used to hold on to like, oh, I don't get to go do my nails as often as I used to. I have been doing a few more massages now that my son is back in school, but during like the summer when I had him at home I couldn't just go and get a massage, you know, like things like that.
And for a while I would get frustrated. I'd be like, “Oh, I don't get to rest. I don't get to like relax.” And then I'm like, what are you talking about? You can just take a nap when he takes a nap. Or like massage your own feet. You know, like that's free, that's available to you anytime.
Also, like my mom gave me this, I used to have feet problems when the pandemic started because I was on my feet more than expected and I wasn't taking care of them. And my mom got me like this really unique vibrator for your feet, where you just put your feet on there.
And I actually have it under my desk, so when I'm on calls or conference calls, whether it's for Public Health Hired or for my full-time job, my feet are getting a little massage. It's like, oh, this is nice. I couldn't do this when I was in my cubicle before. Like I couldn't have this loud machine going.
So it's like those little things that I'm realizing I've had to do for myself have been really worth it. And even in how I eat, the quality of food. You know, I used to complain that I had to cook for myself much more now that we were all home. And then it's slowly evolved into excitement and looking up recipes.
And like, just the other day I made this like pistachio encrusted chicken that my son loved. He was like, “What is this?” And I was like, “I'm impressed too. Like what is this pistachio chicken?” So it's just these little joys, not that I'm forcing it, but I'm realizing I should just be welcoming this more. And why was I fighting it before? I have no idea.
Marissa: I mean, I want to pull out one of the things you said that I think is so important, which is when we're telling ourselves, “I can't rest, I don't get to rest, I don't have time to rest.” What happens is, you're basically giving your brain an order to find evidence that that's true.
But if you flip it and say, well, how can I rest? Or how is it possible I can rest? Or what are the ways I can rest? You're asking your brain questions that is open-ended for it to find answers. Oh, maybe I could take a nap. Maybe I could go for a walk. Maybe I could do this. So just be mindful of the way you're thinking because that can block off or open up for rest.
Zoila: Oh my gosh, you're so correct. You're so on the money because I think I even used to, I could say I'm not really a big phone person, for example. Like if my family wants to call me or if my friends want to call me, like only rarely will I want to be on the phone. And I think it was because my brain was like, “You're tired. You've talked to too many people.” You know, like you just assumed you don't need to have one more conversation.
Yet, when I will pick up the phone, this person on the other line, whether it's my friends or my family, they'll have a story for me. They'll have something that distracts me. Like they'll ask me about how I'm feeling but in a way that's like only that they can get really good things out of me that help me relax in a way that I didn't think about it.
Or I'll tell them about my accomplishments, and they'll be like, “Oh my God, that's amazing, Zoila.” And I'm like, “Yeah, that is amazing. Why am I not even celebrating?” And rejoicing, right? Like rest is rejoicing. Any way you can bring joy to yourself.
And, again, it's not about bragging and rubbing things into people's face. But like, I think only very rarely will I, in fact, there was a mentee of mine who I had been working with for 10 months and I literally cried over the phone with her when she got her job because it had been 10 months. And before that she had been looking for two years.
So she was going on to three years of job hunting for a full-time job. She had only been able to find these part time contract jobs, and she had to keep it moving, and that's what was keeping her in this hamster wheel. And when she told me she finally got a job with New York State Health Department for a really coveted role to help with AIDS and HIV, which is her passion, I cried with her. Like I just cried with her, and I was like, “I am going to celebrate you this weekend. Like I cannot believe how impressed and proud I am of you. Like you did this.”
And in a way she helped me rest that whole weekend because I was like, “Cheers to Natalie, cheers to her.” You know, like I was like popping champagne for her. So it’s like these little ways that I'm still surprised at like just socializing brings out things in me that I guess I didn't expect before. You know, how to be there for others. And it's really been a blessing in a lot of ways to be able to work with folks in this manner, for sure.
Marissa: When we look at the research about like stress response, for example, when our nervous system gets activated. Actually one of the things that helps us lower stress response is social connection. Now, obviously, social connection with people you enjoy, not like people that you're afraid of, of course. But I think that was one of the hard things during like the beginning of the pandemic, during deep lockdown, was the lack of social connection and we're in this heightened stress.
And I think a lot of us, even though many of us, like I've had this experience where socializing more where we are now, like you might have more social anxiety or feel nervous or feel awkward, that's okay. But you can get rest from that, and it physiologically can be your nervous system slowing down and calming down and your brain realizing, “Oh, I am safe.” So I think that's a really good point you bring up.
And then the other thing I want to mention is, I've been thinking about this a lot, and since you’ve brought up bragging a little bit I'm just like, you know, I'm just going to put it out there. It’s a half-baked thought, but I've been thinking about this a lot. I just think toxic capitalism has really tricked us all into believing that if we get a lot of sleep, or take rest, then like we're self-centered and bragging.
And, I don't know, there's just something there where I feel like we've been tricked into believing that. And because we're a social species who don't want to be rejected or talked negatively about, we’re like, “Okay, well, I can't really share that I'm rejoicing, or that I'm sleeping more, or that I'm resting more.” And I'm like, I just think that's a lie we've been told.
Zoila: Absolutely. I appreciate that comment because yeah, I think we're expected to be on the go. And I think, I don't know if it's sometimes I don't want to share my vacation or what I'm up to because, in a way, I don't want others to judge me of like, “How are you able to do that? You're so busy, don't you have all this stuff to do?”
It's like this weird psychological thing that happens. I mean, I'm even having a hard time, my son was really, really ill, I want to say about a week ago. And I mean like bad, like stomach bug, nothing was staying down, like all night, all day it was happening. And yet I had this conference I had to go to, and my mom was here to help take care of him. But he was supposed to be in a healthy situation. But instead, I took the conference call over the phone and luckily they had a line that you could call into.
And I couldn't even properly engage. And the whole time I felt like I couldn't do my job well and I couldn't be a mother well. And I was like, “Why the hell didn't I just take the day off?” Why didn't I just call in sick? Obviously, my son is throwing up, it was a horrible day for me to be on the phone. Luckily, again, my mom was with me juggling everything that was happening with my son. But at the end of the day like, why do I feel guilty to just say it's just not a good day?
I was looking forward to this conference, but I need to be home and present and be here for my son. And I still kind of look back at that day, it was just a week ago, and I feel like an idiot, you know? I'm like, why was it so hard just to say I need the day off?
Marissa: Yeah, I mean, I think we all struggle with this. And I think a part of it is because we've internalized so many messages from toxic capitalism, hustle culture, even the patriarchy about how you're supposed to be. Well, you're supposed to be a perfect mom, or a perfect employee, and all these things.
And I definitely noticed this in my brain. Like when I was sick, I had a really bad cold, you know, I'm a rest coach and I coach people on this all the time. And I think I'm fairly detached from toxic productivity. My brain was still offering me these things.
And I think it's just because we hear them so much growing up, that it's just so embedded in our brain. I have a lot of clients who, you know, they have all these beliefs that I can only ask for a day off if I can justify it, like for someone's wedding or for this. Rather than just like to do nothing.
Zoila: Yes.
Marissa: In my opinion, I don't think you have to tell anyone the reason you're taking time off. But we have been told we have to. I have a lot of clients who also, like unless they get a COVID diagnosis, they feel like they can't take a sick day. This is what we've absorbed. This is what our brain has been told to think. It doesn't mean it's true and it also doesn't mean it's easy to override, but it helps explain and contextualize it a little bit.
Zoila: Yeah, you're really hitting on something there because even when I do want to take time off because I have to like submit my little, you know, PTO request and I need some personal time off. Or they call it earned time off, however you want to think about it. But when I have to submit for my full-time job and there's a little reason box. Every time I see that little reason box, it annoys the hell out of me.
Marissa: Oh my gosh, I hate those things.
Zoila: The reason box. And a lot of times I will just put like personal time. You know, like I won't say what I'm doing, but I'm so annoyed about a little box that asks me so why are you taking this time off? And so anyways, that just hits a nerve every time I have to hit the submit button.
Marissa: Oh my gosh, I would be so tempted to write none of your fucking business, which I wouldn’t but I would be tempted.
Zoila: I think if you say like need time off, like that's all I say. Yeah, but it’s annoying.
Marissa: Yeah, and even the fact that they write earned time off, like I talk about this a lot, actually. Like there are subtle ways we're socialized to believe we have to earn rest. Like that is one of them. Another one is a lot of organizations, your benefits don't kick in for three months. Which is basically like saying like you have to earn this.
Zoila: True.
Marissa: And that gets to your subconscious a little bit and it shows up in different ways of where we're withholding permission for ourselves to rest, whether it's taking lunch because we don't think we've gotten enough done or taking vacation because there's these little subtle messages we get that you have to earn rest, or you have to justify it.
Zoila: Yeah, I agree with that. I don't even think that dawned on me that I'm like, why is it called earned? To me it was just like a given, I'm like, “Oh yeah, earned like I've accrued.” You know, you've accrued your hours of whatever. But I think to that point, in a weird way this pandemic, you know, thankfully, I work from home. I'm one of those lucky few, well I guess there's more and more of us who get to work from home even though we work for a company.
But I feel like there's been some compromises that we've all had to make, not only the employees, but also the companies, recognizing that now that we work from home. Because the company I work for, they've now decided to keep our department like permanently full-time at home. Like we're not ever, ever going to be asked to go back to the office.
I have been hearing a little more grumblings, just from other companies and even my mentees and followers saying like, “Hey, I need to go into the office once a week, they're expecting me now to kind of go in every so often.” And things like that.
So what I'm trying to say is I am willing to almost “put up” with whatever bureaucracy, toxicity, or whatever it is that they still have within the company, because the benefits that I have now is I get to be at home. For me, even like resting is like not having to put my makeup on every damn day.
Marissa: Yeah.
Zoila: Sometimes I have like these flashbacks of me getting ready in the morning and rushing my kid out the door as well. And it's like so cringey that I used to have to do that and that women in the workforce have had to do that for so many years. And like, drop your kid off, and also wear your heels and be polished. And now I get to wake up and just like put on my slippers and ask my son, “What are we eating?”
You know, it's like these major compromises that, to me, I've realized in a way I've gotten so much time back. I'm not in traffic anymore. I'm not, you know, like I used to actually do one hour commutes when I was pregnant with my son back and forth. So it was like two hours a day on the road. And it was just horrendous that I used to have to do that, especially being pregnant. But I know some of your listeners are still a commuter and they have to figure it out.
So it's these ways that I've taken my time back, and I don't take that for granted. And my company trusts us, and our department, those who work from home to flex their hours as needed. Obviously be available on your phone, you know, respond to your emails within due time.
But even I hear my boss from time to time say like, “You know what? I'm overwhelmed these days, I will get to your email when I get to your email.” And when I hear her say that, it's a little more refreshing to me because if she's not in a rush than why am I in a rush?
Marissa: Really.
Zoila: You know, she's going to prioritize her life accordingly, and so she's almost welcoming us to do the same. And so it is nice to have leadership that you can follow that allows you to just be human. Just be human, like, you know, I saw your email, I'm not going to respond because my headspace isn't there yet. Or, you know what, I have other priorities. Or you know what, I’d rather work on this project and then respond to all my emails by the end of the week.
Like whatever your reasoning is, they don't need to hear it anymore. They just want to know that you got to it at some point, you know? So it's, you know, in a way my rest is trying to balance this work from home life, and my son and when he needs me. And again, the luxury of being able to work from home is like when my son is sick I don't have to worry about how am I going to do this because I just stay home. It's like, oh, well, this is what we've been doing anyways.
Before it used to be a little more tricky of like, oh no, I have to take off a ton of time of work. And instead, my colleagues are understanding if I have to do a half day, for example. Like, okay, I'll just take the afternoon off, or I have to go to the doctor. Like I don't have to make a major announcement when I have to go to the doctor. Like, “Hey, I have to go to the doctor, everyone.”
Like no one's seeing me leave the office. It is these little ways that I pinch myself was like, wow, nobody's up in my business, this is refreshing. That in itself is rest.
Marissa: Yeah, and I would say for everyone listening, I think this is a good example of like even if you're not looking to leave a job, whatever job you're in, or in the future are in, or whatever part of career transition you are in now or will be in the future. Like every job has different things it offers as far as rest. But because rest is unique, it may or may not be restful to you. Like there are some folks who find traffic restful because they get that time to debrief with themselves and decompress.
For me and my partner we don't have kids, so it actually is restful for us if I work from home full-time, if he has a job where he's in the office part-time so we get a little more space. So thinking about what job you're in and your career transition, you also get to define what's restful for you in a job and look for a job that helps you get that rest.
And it can be beyond benefits and PTO. It can be small things like who your leader is, or work from home or not, or where the location is, or who the people are. There's so many things. Like when you open up the definition of rest to be much more abundant and expansive, you get all the options.
Zoila: I love that, absolutely. And for anyone who wants to tip on where should you look for jobs that give you just more options of being appreciated and feeling like rest is okay, I have been noticing a lot of tech companies or like the newer companies, I'm thinking like Google, Facebook, Airbnb, Twitter, just like they offer benefits that I've never even heard of.
For example, I've seen jobs, and some of this is related to public health. It could be around like social impact and philanthropy, but for the arm of these major companies. Or like I even saw Indeed, the company Indeed post a really cool job for social health and social impact.
So if you're out there trying to get these unique stellar jobs, I've seen them even say like, “We send you snacks for the week, so you're stocked up for your own break room at your house.” And I’m like that’s cool.
Marissa: Yeah, I've seen where they're like, “We’ll pay you two weeks’ vacation before you start.” So you get a paid vacation in between your jobs.
Zoila: Yes, yes. Like I’m finding companies or being more creative? And like, how do we make folks comfortable from the get-go and not make them feel like now they're strapped at home stuck just having to work like a hamster? No, we appreciate you, let us show you how.
So anyways, there's just these other things that I'm finding that have been giving me hope that things could get better. You don't have to be in these nine to five grueling kind of jobs anymore. Like the world has changed and I think we should take advantage of that.
Marissa: Yeah. Speaking of, as we wrap up, do you want to share where folks can get connected with you and find you and hear more about what you offer?
Zoila: Yeah. So if you're looking for just tips on how to get hired, how to get a job in public health, the best place would be my Instagram, @publichealthhired. There's a lot of videos or reels that I have on just tips, whether it's job hunting, resumes, cover letters, and interviews. It's kind of sprinkled all throughout. I also have success stories I highlight to give you a hope how others have done it.
And then I also have TikTok, @publichealthhired. You can also find me on LinkedIn on my personal Zoila Reyna. I'm pretty sure I'm the only Zoila Reyna, if not one of two, so you should be able to easily find me and then just friend me on there or send me a message. And then I have my website publichealthhired.com.
So the website holds my free guide of key terms that is downloadable, anyone can access that. I have almost 1,000 downloads on that guide, so it's the most popular service because it gives you just your own little kind of handbook on what you need to do to search better and prepare for the job hunt. But then I have my other services which include the masterclass, interview prep club, and the mentorship. So you're welcome to look at all of that on the website.
Marissa: Awesome. And we'll leave some of those links in the show notes for all of you and make it super easy. Zoila, I really appreciate you coming on. This conversation was amazing. Honestly, I feel like I could chat with you forever.
Zoila: I know, I kind of want to keep going, but I know we’ve got to go.
Marissa: Yeah, I know your kiddo is taking a nap. So I know everyone's gotten a lot out of it. Thank you so much for being here. And folks, make sure to check out all of her great offerings.
Zoila: Thank you, Marissa, for your time, I appreciate this, thank you.
Marissa: Yeah. Bye everyone.
Zoila: Bye.
If you found this episode helpful then you have to check out my coaching program where I provide you individualized support to create a life centered around rest. Head on over to mckoolcoaching.com, that’s M-C-K-O-O-L coaching.com to learn more.
Hi everyone, I am so excited you are here. Today is the final episode in the how we rest series, where all fall I have been interviewing different public health professionals, leaders, and entrepreneurs to hear about how they get rest. How they overcome challenges to rest, what rest is to them.
They have shared so many insights, tips, perspectives, and stories. And if you’ve missed any of those episodes, after this you can always go back and tune in to them. But today I have a very special treat to wrap it all up and finish it off, my new friend, Zoila Reyna, who is the founder of Public Health Hired, where she helps folks in public health find amazing jobs.
We talk all things rest from social connections inside and outside of work, finding the little joys and getting some laughter, to figuring out balance and what unique rest is to you where you are in your life. Whether you're a single parent, whether you're a college student, whether you have three dogs, whether you're working two jobs, whatever it may be. So without further ado, let's get into it.
Marissa: Hey, everyone, I seriously can't express how thrilled I am about this last episode in the How We Rest series. I'm so excited to have my new friend, Zoila, on to talk about the way she rests. Zoila, do you want to let everyone know who you are?
Zoila: Yeah. Hi everyone, hi Marissa. My name is Zoila Reyna, I am founder and CEO of Public Health Hired, which focuses on helping public health professionals get jobs, internships, or jobs, all alike. And I have been a public health professional for over 15 years now. I have worked in nonprofits, government, as well as private, and research and universities. And my passion is overall mental health, chronic disease management.
And in addition to working with all of you in public health for helping you find jobs, I also work for a health care organization for philanthropy and their strategies on serving community better. So thank you for having me, Marissa.
Marissa: Yeah, thanks so much for being here. You shared a little bit about kind of your focus areas and a little bit of your background, can you just share a little bit about like how did you discover public health? And how did that lead you not only to doing public health, but then starting Public Health Hired?
Zoila: Yeah, great question. I love the question of how you stumble on public health because everyone has their own unique story. And oftentimes, what I find is kind of what happened to me is I was working after graduate school, I have my background my undergrad in psychology from UCLA. And I didn't really know about public health yet. I just knew I wanted to do good, meaningful work. And like many who end up in public health I was pre-med actually.
Marissa: Me too. That was me too, yeah.
Zoila: So it's very common for folks who end up in public health were at one point interested in just the healthcare track, and that was me at one point. But I didn't pursue that at the end of the day. I ended up just wanting to throw myself into some nonprofit work, assuming that, you know, well, I can't go wrong with just serving a nonprofit organization.
And so when I graduated I basically just started job hunting for nonprofit work. And I found a great role with the American Lung Association and tobacco prevention. And it was like this really unique role where I got to work from home as a 22 year old, so I was like shocked.
Marissa: And this was like pre-pandemic, right?
Zoila: This was pre-pandemic, yeah. This was a while ago. And so I was like, “No way, I get to work from home and you guys trust me.” So anyways, I was lucky enough to be exposed to the world of tobacco prevention across California because of the network that they required me to be a part of, and the engagement and the stakeholders I had to basically rub elbows with.
So slowly and surely I kept having to work with public health agencies, local departments, county departments, city departments. And I was like, what is public health? Why am I always going to these public health offices? And so it was just like literally, you know, just over time I finally became curious enough to dive deeper into public health.
And thankfully, after being at that role for three years, I applied to UC Davis because I was up in Sacramento. I applied to UC Davis, their master's program, it's an accelerated one year program. And I got in so it kind of just worked in my favor that I was already in the field, didn't even realize it. I just thought I was like working with youth and doing nonprofit work, when in reality it was all under the umbrella of the California Department of Public Health Tobacco Control Programs Network.
Marissa: Right because public health is everything and everything is public health, right?
Zoila: Yes, yes. So I love that I was already in the world without having to like force myself into public health, I guess you could say. And then what was ironic is I thought that getting my master's would get me out of tobacco control, thinking like, oh, this will be my way of like expanding into other fields, other areas, maybe go back to more behavioral health, mental health, because that was my degree. And, like I said, my bachelor's in psychology.
So I just thought in general I would be able to pivot into something that was non tobacco control. But what was funny is when I was presenting my practicum, which was on migrant health, there was employees from the California Department of Public Health in the audience from tobacco control and I basically was recruited. I had someone come up to me after my presentation and say, “We would love to talk with you. If you're interested we have some positions open. And let us know if you want, you know, any help in the application process.”
So long story short, it took like 10 years to get out of tobacco control because I just, it wouldn't let me go. At that point I was already an expert and I had already done a lot of contract management for the state. So I’d had like, I would say, about four jobs in tobacco prevention, tobacco control. So I'm always happy to hear someone who comes from that background, because it's very near and dear to my heart.
But fast forward to the pandemic, just like everyone else we were in quarantine, we were isolated. I was a single mom, my son was a year and a half years old by then. And I was working at the health care company that I mentioned earlier. And I was at a cubicle, I had an office job just like normal life used to be.
And all of a sudden I was alone with my son. And my social circle got very small, I didn't see anyone. In fact, I even got COVID November 2020, I found out I couldn't have Thanksgiving, because I couldn't taste anything. So during that time, literally, when I was on my couch recovering, I just felt lonely. I felt alone.
And knowing that public health was coming out of everyone's mouth, it was just sort of like it kind of just hit me like a big just, I don't know what it was. It just sort of was like, why don't you try to see if anyone needs help with their employment? Like I'm alone, I have nothing else going on, there's no happy hours, there's no coffee, I don't get to go out to coffee with my colleagues anymore.
So it was almost like a mutual beneficial reason that I started Public Health Hired because I didn't want to be so alone and isolated knowing that there's others out there who I knew were struggling in this field to try to get a job and yet it was all over the news, like public health, public health, public health. Yeah, it just kind of worked out nicely. I started offering free webinars through Eventbrite and I actually had a huge response of individuals who were like, “Yes, I need your help. I want to talk to you about how do I do this for myself.”
So fast forward to now and I have a huge following, 4,500 on Instagram, over 2,000 on TikTok, and my mentees are strong. And even folks who don't purchase into my services, just the free materials that they get from what I offer, they say they make a lot of headway, and they get job offers just from even the free materials. So I'm super, super proud of everyone for just trusting me. And I'm so happy that the response has been what it is.
Marissa: That's amazing. And, for me listening to you, one of the most amazing things which is just totally like left field, is the fact that you have such a following on TikTok because I just have been diving into TikTok and I'm like, wow, this must be what like boomers feel like getting on Instagram. I'm like, I don't know what's going on here.
Zoila: TikTok is another animal, that's for sure, yeah.
Marissa: No, but truly, like we were talking before we recorded about there's a lot of other fields that have, you know, outside of recruiters more like companies, and coaches, and processes, and people who focus on helping individuals get jobs. But not as much focused specifically in public health.
And it is complex, like when I was navigating and when I was still full-time it's like different federal agencies have requirements, different state and city agencies have requirements. Like when I moved to the Bay Area, for the San Francisco Department of Public Health you had to go take a test. I had to take a test with 300 people and just to get on a waitlist to be notified about the job openings.
Zoila: Yeah.
Marissa: Like you wouldn’t know that, I only knew that because I had people who were able to tell me. Like so many different challenges and pieces to finding jobs in public health because each little sector in public health topically or skill wise or department wise is so different.
Zoila: Yes. Oh my gosh, you're speaking my language because that was one of the first talking points I had back when I first started the company, was like the key to getting hired is being aware of what industry are you going after? Are you going after government, nonprofit, universities, philanthropy, private, research? Because even those worlds have their own language within themselves, even if they're talking about the same thing.
So like, if you're applying, you know, if your passion is like nutrition, well they could all be spoken about differently depending on what industry you're going after? And, like you said, is it federal level? Is it state level? Is it’s the local level? So yeah, the complexities, you have to be aware of that level of detail to actually be successful in getting a job offer, absolutely.
Marissa: Yeah, totally. And we're going to talk about rest, and we can talk about rest in the context of like folks you work with. We were talking also, before we started recording, about like my partner has been looking for a job for a while and it's not restful and all that. But first, starting out with you, you have this business, you're also working, you’re a single parent. I'm just so curious, for you, where you are in your life, what does rest mean to you?
Zoila: That's such a great question. You know, I will be honest, when you ask me what rest means to me or how do I rest, it's taken me so long. I'm in my late 30s now, and it's taking me just about my entire adulthood to realize I don't rest enough, and I don't relax enough. I don't put myself first enough. And in a way, I guess, this pandemic has made all of us kind of have to take care of ourselves a different way and just you never know what's going to happen.
But to be honest, when I rest, it takes a certain level of proactiveness and energy. And I'll be honest, it has a lot to do with my childhood and coming from just my parents, who were from Mexico, and they had a lot of hardships. We were poor. We were six children, two adults living in a one bedroom house, so it was eight people in one bedroom at one point.
And it was just seeing through the hardships that I became such a survivalist, I guess you could say. So I've always known to work hard and do what it takes. And I was the straight A student, not because it was easy, but because there was no other way because I knew education was my way out into a better life.
So that kind of followed me throughout my adulthood. And I always worked when I went to college, not that I regret working, I think everyone should be working at some level when you're going to school. It's actually to your benefit if you're in the world of public health. You have to be busy, I guess you can say.
But my friends are always shocked. I used to like work night shifts, just like lots of strenuous jobs and I still volunteered on the weekends just to kind of feel like I needed to keep looking, keep finding, keep digging. I just felt so alone in my adulthood life, not because I didn't feel supported by my friends and family, but just because, like I said, I was just in a survival mode for so long.
And it's only been in my 30s where I feel like I finally can relax a little bit and let go and trust the world. I've been more aware of just the signs of this universe. You know, in a way I'm pretty spiritual and very much believe in God. But there's these whispers in life that happen that I think we don't pay attention to enough.
And so I've leaned more into that, to really follow my gut, my mental health, my physical health, and listen to, you know, I need to take time off. I need to actually take a break. I need to pay attention to my son more. My son's about to be four years old, I can't believe time has passed so much.
But rest, to me, really means just proactively letting go and not feeling like I have to be so ruthless and relentless 24/7. Because I don't need to survive anymore, I'm thriving. And I have to remind myself that so many times when I want to take a break. So that's where I come from with rest.
Marissa: I think you just brought up a lot of really good points. I mean, one is the way that we think about rest or productivity or working hard, is influenced from a very young age. You know, many of us get similar messages from living in a capitalistic society, living under the patriarchy, white supremacy. But also then we get other messages based on our family of origin, or where we went to school and what we learned, and what was going on in the media and all that.
And I can relate to your story a little bit. You know, my dad was a janitor and he'd get up at three in the morning to work every single day. And my mom was working at the casino, working till four in the morning. So I just saw them constantly working, my dad didn't have paid time off. And I had to undo a lot of that internalization.
Just because you get a degree, and you get a job that offers PTO doesn't mean automatically you're comfortable with taking it. Like it is kind of a habit, what we've learned about hustle and rest and all of those pieces. And also we live in a world where hustling and doing, doing, doing and being busy is rewarding and not as much rest and taking time and doing what you need to is.
Zoila: Correct. Yeah, I agree with all of that. And I admire that you come from that background because in a way, I mean, I don't think we take any of this for granted. In a way it almost like encourages us to find a more comfortable living situation, right? Like no one wants to be working at three, four in the morning. I mean, I saw my parents doing a lot of stuff that I would never want to have to do. Not that I'm judging what they had to do. But it can get scary, you know? And I just never wanted that for myself or for my children.
And so I'm very proud of being able to put myself through school, put myself through college. I get a lot of those kinds of questions as well, just because of the finances of like, oh my gosh, how do you pay for this? You know, all this talk about loan forgiveness is very near and dear to my heart. I can talk all about loans, that's a whole other question, that's a whole other discussion.
But I think when it comes to just our childhood, it does take time for you to realize, oh my God, that's why I think this way.
Marissa: Right. Yeah, totally.
Zoila: That’s why I don't just relax and chill out. And lately I've been really prioritizing my physical health and my energy. And just, I see my body differently. It's, you know, again, like I said, I have a son and it's just me and him for now. I do have a boyfriend and we're talking about moving in, but for now I'm still like single and I'm the one who has to take care of him when he's sick. And I'm doing a lot of the heavy lifting.
And I'm not complaining about it, but I don't have the luxury to, you know, like my sleep is so important to me, for example. Even just realizing how important my sleep is, or how important laughing is, like I want to laugh and relax. And like I used to go to comedy clubs. I just miss all of those things that I realized used to regenerate me and give me a different perspective in life and used to make me forget life.
And now that I am a mom, I think it's harder to even find more time to hang out and relax with people. So in a way, like I said earlier, Public Health Hired and my followers and my mentees, they're kind of my social life. You know, yes, it's a service. Yes, I'm helping you all in some really hard conversations. But it actually feeds my soul, and it feeds my heart, and it feeds my mind. And I feel like I'm actually there for individuals in a meaningful way.
To me, it's not like hard, I want to say. I'm not bragging, I'm just saying like I feed off of it. And in a weird way it's a combination of both rest and productivity. But because it's my social life almost, to me it almost benefits me more than I think the caller or the mentee on the other line. I'm like, “I don't see anybody. Hi, how are you? Who are you?”
Marissa: I mean, I don't think it's bragging. I think what you're bringing up is something that I really try to get across and I'm really passionate about, is that rest is unique to everyone. We've been sold this idea that rest is like the specific spa day, or traveling, or this or that. And I just don't believe in that at all because one, well, if those things aren't accessible to you, then that basically says you're fucked, which I don't think is true at all.
Zoila: Correct.
Marissa: But two, we all have different emotional, mental, spiritual needs, physical needs at different points in our life. So I think that makes a lot of sense. And it ebbs and flows, right? Like what rest is for a single mom might look very different than rest for someone who has chronic health issues, or someone who lives in a rural area, or someone who's working two jobs. And it's about figuring out in our stage of life right now, with the circumstances that we have and what we're doing, what is rest for us?
And I love that you said for you, it's really sleep and laughing and even your work and socializing. And for those of you listening, it's like those don't have to be your forms of rest. It's like what feels good to you, what feels restful to you might be totally different.
Zoila: Yes, absolutely. And I think you're right in that I think I used to hold on to like, oh, I don't get to go do my nails as often as I used to. I have been doing a few more massages now that my son is back in school, but during like the summer when I had him at home I couldn't just go and get a massage, you know, like things like that.
And for a while I would get frustrated. I'd be like, “Oh, I don't get to rest. I don't get to like relax.” And then I'm like, what are you talking about? You can just take a nap when he takes a nap. Or like massage your own feet. You know, like that's free, that's available to you anytime.
Also, like my mom gave me this, I used to have feet problems when the pandemic started because I was on my feet more than expected and I wasn't taking care of them. And my mom got me like this really unique vibrator for your feet, where you just put your feet on there.
And I actually have it under my desk, so when I'm on calls or conference calls, whether it's for Public Health Hired or for my full-time job, my feet are getting a little massage. It's like, oh, this is nice. I couldn't do this when I was in my cubicle before. Like I couldn't have this loud machine going.
So it's like those little things that I'm realizing I've had to do for myself have been really worth it. And even in how I eat, the quality of food. You know, I used to complain that I had to cook for myself much more now that we were all home. And then it's slowly evolved into excitement and looking up recipes.
And like, just the other day I made this like pistachio encrusted chicken that my son loved. He was like, “What is this?” And I was like, “I'm impressed too. Like what is this pistachio chicken?” So it's just these little joys, not that I'm forcing it, but I'm realizing I should just be welcoming this more. And why was I fighting it before? I have no idea.
Marissa: I mean, I want to pull out one of the things you said that I think is so important, which is when we're telling ourselves, “I can't rest, I don't get to rest, I don't have time to rest.” What happens is, you're basically giving your brain an order to find evidence that that's true.
But if you flip it and say, well, how can I rest? Or how is it possible I can rest? Or what are the ways I can rest? You're asking your brain questions that is open-ended for it to find answers. Oh, maybe I could take a nap. Maybe I could go for a walk. Maybe I could do this. So just be mindful of the way you're thinking because that can block off or open up for rest.
Zoila: Oh my gosh, you're so correct. You're so on the money because I think I even used to, I could say I'm not really a big phone person, for example. Like if my family wants to call me or if my friends want to call me, like only rarely will I want to be on the phone. And I think it was because my brain was like, “You're tired. You've talked to too many people.” You know, like you just assumed you don't need to have one more conversation.
Yet, when I will pick up the phone, this person on the other line, whether it's my friends or my family, they'll have a story for me. They'll have something that distracts me. Like they'll ask me about how I'm feeling but in a way that's like only that they can get really good things out of me that help me relax in a way that I didn't think about it.
Or I'll tell them about my accomplishments, and they'll be like, “Oh my God, that's amazing, Zoila.” And I'm like, “Yeah, that is amazing. Why am I not even celebrating?” And rejoicing, right? Like rest is rejoicing. Any way you can bring joy to yourself.
And, again, it's not about bragging and rubbing things into people's face. But like, I think only very rarely will I, in fact, there was a mentee of mine who I had been working with for 10 months and I literally cried over the phone with her when she got her job because it had been 10 months. And before that she had been looking for two years.
So she was going on to three years of job hunting for a full-time job. She had only been able to find these part time contract jobs, and she had to keep it moving, and that's what was keeping her in this hamster wheel. And when she told me she finally got a job with New York State Health Department for a really coveted role to help with AIDS and HIV, which is her passion, I cried with her. Like I just cried with her, and I was like, “I am going to celebrate you this weekend. Like I cannot believe how impressed and proud I am of you. Like you did this.”
And in a way she helped me rest that whole weekend because I was like, “Cheers to Natalie, cheers to her.” You know, like I was like popping champagne for her. So it’s like these little ways that I'm still surprised at like just socializing brings out things in me that I guess I didn't expect before. You know, how to be there for others. And it's really been a blessing in a lot of ways to be able to work with folks in this manner, for sure.
Marissa: When we look at the research about like stress response, for example, when our nervous system gets activated. Actually one of the things that helps us lower stress response is social connection. Now, obviously, social connection with people you enjoy, not like people that you're afraid of, of course. But I think that was one of the hard things during like the beginning of the pandemic, during deep lockdown, was the lack of social connection and we're in this heightened stress.
And I think a lot of us, even though many of us, like I've had this experience where socializing more where we are now, like you might have more social anxiety or feel nervous or feel awkward, that's okay. But you can get rest from that, and it physiologically can be your nervous system slowing down and calming down and your brain realizing, “Oh, I am safe.” So I think that's a really good point you bring up.
And then the other thing I want to mention is, I've been thinking about this a lot, and since you’ve brought up bragging a little bit I'm just like, you know, I'm just going to put it out there. It’s a half-baked thought, but I've been thinking about this a lot. I just think toxic capitalism has really tricked us all into believing that if we get a lot of sleep, or take rest, then like we're self-centered and bragging.
And, I don't know, there's just something there where I feel like we've been tricked into believing that. And because we're a social species who don't want to be rejected or talked negatively about, we’re like, “Okay, well, I can't really share that I'm rejoicing, or that I'm sleeping more, or that I'm resting more.” And I'm like, I just think that's a lie we've been told.
Zoila: Absolutely. I appreciate that comment because yeah, I think we're expected to be on the go. And I think, I don't know if it's sometimes I don't want to share my vacation or what I'm up to because, in a way, I don't want others to judge me of like, “How are you able to do that? You're so busy, don't you have all this stuff to do?”
It's like this weird psychological thing that happens. I mean, I'm even having a hard time, my son was really, really ill, I want to say about a week ago. And I mean like bad, like stomach bug, nothing was staying down, like all night, all day it was happening. And yet I had this conference I had to go to, and my mom was here to help take care of him. But he was supposed to be in a healthy situation. But instead, I took the conference call over the phone and luckily they had a line that you could call into.
And I couldn't even properly engage. And the whole time I felt like I couldn't do my job well and I couldn't be a mother well. And I was like, “Why the hell didn't I just take the day off?” Why didn't I just call in sick? Obviously, my son is throwing up, it was a horrible day for me to be on the phone. Luckily, again, my mom was with me juggling everything that was happening with my son. But at the end of the day like, why do I feel guilty to just say it's just not a good day?
I was looking forward to this conference, but I need to be home and present and be here for my son. And I still kind of look back at that day, it was just a week ago, and I feel like an idiot, you know? I'm like, why was it so hard just to say I need the day off?
Marissa: Yeah, I mean, I think we all struggle with this. And I think a part of it is because we've internalized so many messages from toxic capitalism, hustle culture, even the patriarchy about how you're supposed to be. Well, you're supposed to be a perfect mom, or a perfect employee, and all these things.
And I definitely noticed this in my brain. Like when I was sick, I had a really bad cold, you know, I'm a rest coach and I coach people on this all the time. And I think I'm fairly detached from toxic productivity. My brain was still offering me these things.
And I think it's just because we hear them so much growing up, that it's just so embedded in our brain. I have a lot of clients who, you know, they have all these beliefs that I can only ask for a day off if I can justify it, like for someone's wedding or for this. Rather than just like to do nothing.
Zoila: Yes.
Marissa: In my opinion, I don't think you have to tell anyone the reason you're taking time off. But we have been told we have to. I have a lot of clients who also, like unless they get a COVID diagnosis, they feel like they can't take a sick day. This is what we've absorbed. This is what our brain has been told to think. It doesn't mean it's true and it also doesn't mean it's easy to override, but it helps explain and contextualize it a little bit.
Zoila: Yeah, you're really hitting on something there because even when I do want to take time off because I have to like submit my little, you know, PTO request and I need some personal time off. Or they call it earned time off, however you want to think about it. But when I have to submit for my full-time job and there's a little reason box. Every time I see that little reason box, it annoys the hell out of me.
Marissa: Oh my gosh, I hate those things.
Zoila: The reason box. And a lot of times I will just put like personal time. You know, like I won't say what I'm doing, but I'm so annoyed about a little box that asks me so why are you taking this time off? And so anyways, that just hits a nerve every time I have to hit the submit button.
Marissa: Oh my gosh, I would be so tempted to write none of your fucking business, which I wouldn’t but I would be tempted.
Zoila: I think if you say like need time off, like that's all I say. Yeah, but it’s annoying.
Marissa: Yeah, and even the fact that they write earned time off, like I talk about this a lot, actually. Like there are subtle ways we're socialized to believe we have to earn rest. Like that is one of them. Another one is a lot of organizations, your benefits don't kick in for three months. Which is basically like saying like you have to earn this.
Zoila: True.
Marissa: And that gets to your subconscious a little bit and it shows up in different ways of where we're withholding permission for ourselves to rest, whether it's taking lunch because we don't think we've gotten enough done or taking vacation because there's these little subtle messages we get that you have to earn rest, or you have to justify it.
Zoila: Yeah, I agree with that. I don't even think that dawned on me that I'm like, why is it called earned? To me it was just like a given, I'm like, “Oh yeah, earned like I've accrued.” You know, you've accrued your hours of whatever. But I think to that point, in a weird way this pandemic, you know, thankfully, I work from home. I'm one of those lucky few, well I guess there's more and more of us who get to work from home even though we work for a company.
But I feel like there's been some compromises that we've all had to make, not only the employees, but also the companies, recognizing that now that we work from home. Because the company I work for, they've now decided to keep our department like permanently full-time at home. Like we're not ever, ever going to be asked to go back to the office.
I have been hearing a little more grumblings, just from other companies and even my mentees and followers saying like, “Hey, I need to go into the office once a week, they're expecting me now to kind of go in every so often.” And things like that.
So what I'm trying to say is I am willing to almost “put up” with whatever bureaucracy, toxicity, or whatever it is that they still have within the company, because the benefits that I have now is I get to be at home. For me, even like resting is like not having to put my makeup on every damn day.
Marissa: Yeah.
Zoila: Sometimes I have like these flashbacks of me getting ready in the morning and rushing my kid out the door as well. And it's like so cringey that I used to have to do that and that women in the workforce have had to do that for so many years. And like, drop your kid off, and also wear your heels and be polished. And now I get to wake up and just like put on my slippers and ask my son, “What are we eating?”
You know, it's like these major compromises that, to me, I've realized in a way I've gotten so much time back. I'm not in traffic anymore. I'm not, you know, like I used to actually do one hour commutes when I was pregnant with my son back and forth. So it was like two hours a day on the road. And it was just horrendous that I used to have to do that, especially being pregnant. But I know some of your listeners are still a commuter and they have to figure it out.
So it's these ways that I've taken my time back, and I don't take that for granted. And my company trusts us, and our department, those who work from home to flex their hours as needed. Obviously be available on your phone, you know, respond to your emails within due time.
But even I hear my boss from time to time say like, “You know what? I'm overwhelmed these days, I will get to your email when I get to your email.” And when I hear her say that, it's a little more refreshing to me because if she's not in a rush than why am I in a rush?
Marissa: Really.
Zoila: You know, she's going to prioritize her life accordingly, and so she's almost welcoming us to do the same. And so it is nice to have leadership that you can follow that allows you to just be human. Just be human, like, you know, I saw your email, I'm not going to respond because my headspace isn't there yet. Or, you know what, I have other priorities. Or you know what, I’d rather work on this project and then respond to all my emails by the end of the week.
Like whatever your reasoning is, they don't need to hear it anymore. They just want to know that you got to it at some point, you know? So it's, you know, in a way my rest is trying to balance this work from home life, and my son and when he needs me. And again, the luxury of being able to work from home is like when my son is sick I don't have to worry about how am I going to do this because I just stay home. It's like, oh, well, this is what we've been doing anyways.
Before it used to be a little more tricky of like, oh no, I have to take off a ton of time of work. And instead, my colleagues are understanding if I have to do a half day, for example. Like, okay, I'll just take the afternoon off, or I have to go to the doctor. Like I don't have to make a major announcement when I have to go to the doctor. Like, “Hey, I have to go to the doctor, everyone.”
Like no one's seeing me leave the office. It is these little ways that I pinch myself was like, wow, nobody's up in my business, this is refreshing. That in itself is rest.
Marissa: Yeah, and I would say for everyone listening, I think this is a good example of like even if you're not looking to leave a job, whatever job you're in, or in the future are in, or whatever part of career transition you are in now or will be in the future. Like every job has different things it offers as far as rest. But because rest is unique, it may or may not be restful to you. Like there are some folks who find traffic restful because they get that time to debrief with themselves and decompress.
For me and my partner we don't have kids, so it actually is restful for us if I work from home full-time, if he has a job where he's in the office part-time so we get a little more space. So thinking about what job you're in and your career transition, you also get to define what's restful for you in a job and look for a job that helps you get that rest.
And it can be beyond benefits and PTO. It can be small things like who your leader is, or work from home or not, or where the location is, or who the people are. There's so many things. Like when you open up the definition of rest to be much more abundant and expansive, you get all the options.
Zoila: I love that, absolutely. And for anyone who wants to tip on where should you look for jobs that give you just more options of being appreciated and feeling like rest is okay, I have been noticing a lot of tech companies or like the newer companies, I'm thinking like Google, Facebook, Airbnb, Twitter, just like they offer benefits that I've never even heard of.
For example, I've seen jobs, and some of this is related to public health. It could be around like social impact and philanthropy, but for the arm of these major companies. Or like I even saw Indeed, the company Indeed post a really cool job for social health and social impact.
So if you're out there trying to get these unique stellar jobs, I've seen them even say like, “We send you snacks for the week, so you're stocked up for your own break room at your house.” And I’m like that’s cool.
Marissa: Yeah, I've seen where they're like, “We’ll pay you two weeks’ vacation before you start.” So you get a paid vacation in between your jobs.
Zoila: Yes, yes. Like I’m finding companies or being more creative? And like, how do we make folks comfortable from the get-go and not make them feel like now they're strapped at home stuck just having to work like a hamster? No, we appreciate you, let us show you how.
So anyways, there's just these other things that I'm finding that have been giving me hope that things could get better. You don't have to be in these nine to five grueling kind of jobs anymore. Like the world has changed and I think we should take advantage of that.
Marissa: Yeah. Speaking of, as we wrap up, do you want to share where folks can get connected with you and find you and hear more about what you offer?
Zoila: Yeah. So if you're looking for just tips on how to get hired, how to get a job in public health, the best place would be my Instagram, @publichealthhired. There's a lot of videos or reels that I have on just tips, whether it's job hunting, resumes, cover letters, and interviews. It's kind of sprinkled all throughout. I also have success stories I highlight to give you a hope how others have done it.
And then I also have TikTok, @publichealthhired. You can also find me on LinkedIn on my personal Zoila Reyna. I'm pretty sure I'm the only Zoila Reyna, if not one of two, so you should be able to easily find me and then just friend me on there or send me a message. And then I have my website publichealthhired.com.
So the website holds my free guide of key terms that is downloadable, anyone can access that. I have almost 1,000 downloads on that guide, so it's the most popular service because it gives you just your own little kind of handbook on what you need to do to search better and prepare for the job hunt. But then I have my other services which include the masterclass, interview prep club, and the mentorship. So you're welcome to look at all of that on the website.
Marissa: Awesome. And we'll leave some of those links in the show notes for all of you and make it super easy. Zoila, I really appreciate you coming on. This conversation was amazing. Honestly, I feel like I could chat with you forever.
Zoila: I know, I kind of want to keep going, but I know we’ve got to go.
Marissa: Yeah, I know your kiddo is taking a nap. So I know everyone's gotten a lot out of it. Thank you so much for being here. And folks, make sure to check out all of her great offerings.
Zoila: Thank you, Marissa, for your time, I appreciate this, thank you.
Marissa: Yeah. Bye everyone.
Zoila: Bye.
If you found this episode helpful then you have to check out my coaching program where I provide you individualized support to create a life centered around rest. Head on over to mckoolcoaching.com, that’s M-C-K-O-O-L coaching.com to learn more.
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