118. Live Coaching Call: Falling Behind on Project Deadlines
Check out a behind-the-scenes peek at what it's like to have a coach! I share a live coaching call so you can witness my coaching style and see how I help my client dig deeper, observe her thought patterns, and build clarity.
This week, I helped my client who was falling behind on a project. Together we break down her fears and identify the root of her procrastination. As you listen, you’ll discover how coaching can help you find balance within your habits, thoughts, and planning.
Observe the methods I use while working with my one-on-one clients and learn why coaching is a powerful tool that may benefit you. Hear how, together, we identify steps for moving forward when feeling stuck.
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What You Will Discover:
What coaching is about (and not about).
Why coaching may be right for you.
How observing your thoughts can change your actions.
What a good coach can help you manage.
How to deal with pressure.
Resources:
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Full Episode Transcript:
Hey you all, I’m Marissa McKool, and you’re listening to the Redefining Rest Podcast for Public Health Professionals. Here we believe rest is your right. You don’t have to earn it, you just have to learn how to take it and I’m going to teach you. Ready? Come along.
Hello, everyone. We have a very special episode for you today. I've never done this on the podcast. I am sharing with you a live coaching call. Well, actually a recorded coaching call but it happened live with one of my former clients and I'm sharing this with you on the podcast for a couple of reasons. Number one. I know so many of you don't really understand what coaching is like, what to expect and I get that, that was me too.
So sharing this live coaching call will help you get a better understanding of what being in a coaching session is like so you can decide if you want to join the course that's open right now, Not Your Average Productivity course, which actually closes registration August 3rd, so this week. This will give you an idea of what coaching is like. Because one of the components of that course you get access to is one-on-one coaching, which is actually one of the most powerful components of that course.
And I want to make sure you have an understanding of what to expect for those coaching calls before deciding to sign up. Because coaching is pretty different than therapy in a lot of ways. And the type of coaching I do is very different from coaching some of you may have through a career counselor or an executive coach. And I'll talk more about that in a second.
But the second reason I'm sharing this episode is because actually you would be shocked at how much you can get out of listening to someone else get coached. It's almost like you're getting coached through osmosis. Actually, in a lot of the programs I'm in as a client, I watch a lot of other people get coached. And that's where I've seen a lot of my own growth because as they're getting coached, I'm gaining so many insights. I'm having so many aha moments. I'm learning. I'm resolving challenges.
I'm creating awareness for myself even though they're the ones getting coached. Because when I'm listening, I'm able to connect the dots. I'm able to see what I'm struggling with and how the coaching can apply to me. So that brings me to the second point I want to share before we get into the coaching call, which is how to listen to this episode. Because for a lot of folks in public health and again, this was me too, we are used to being the helper. We are used to being the person that everyone comes to for advice or guidance.
I do not want you to listen to this episode with that hat on. I don't want you to listen to my client and think about what you would tell them, what you think they should do for a couple of reasons. Number one, that's not what coaching is about. What you'll notice on the call is I never tell her what she should do. And number two, that's not going to help you benefit and get your own coaching through listening. As you listen, I want you to notice how the coaching I'm giving applies to you.
I want you to notice how the questions bring up insights for you about what you're struggling with. Now, in this call we talk about her challenge with falling behind on meeting a deadline. You might not have that specific problem, that's okay, you can still get so much out of this. There's so many coaching calls where someone might be getting coached on their dating challenges and actually ends up helping me in my business. Or there are calls I'll see where someone’s getting coaching on dealing with a difficult boss and it helps me in my relationship with someone in my family.
So it doesn't have to be topic specific to what you're struggling with to benefit from the questions I'm asking, the insights I'm bringing and the coaching overall. So don't let that put a barrier for you. If you don't relate completely to her experience, that's okay, you can still get so much out of it. As I said earlier, the type of coaching I do, I do not tell you what to do. So in the call, what you will notice is a lot of the time I'm not only asking prompting questions, but I'm showing her, her brain, the patterns of her brain. And I'm prompting deeper awareness for her.
And as you listen, you will start noticing patterns in your brain and building deeper awareness in you. And that's how these coaching calls go. So if you're interested in the Not Your Average Productivity course, but you're really looking for a coach to tell you exactly what to do, then I'm not the coach for you. But if you listen to this episode and you get a lot out of it, you build curiosity, you build awareness, you make some connections you didn't realize before. Then I am the coach for you.
So last thing before we get into the episode. As you'll notice, there's no personal identifying information in this episode. We don't talk specifics about where she works, we don't give her name, anything like that. This episode is being aired with her full consent. I have her full consent to share this out. But I'm not sharing the personal identifying information for a lot of reasons, but one of which is I want you to focus on what you're going to get out of this episode and how this coaching helps you and applies to you and less about this client and who they are.
So I know for many of you, this is going to be a brand new experience. I really encourage you to listen to the whole episode. I know it's a bit longer than most weeks, but you will get the most benefit if you listen to the call from the start to the finish rather than listen for a little bit and then never come back to it. So without further ado, let's get into the coaching call.
Marissa: Okay, tell me what you want coaching on today.
Female: I have a grant report that I want to work on and ideally have the majority of it finished before I go on vacation in August. And I haven't set up a plan to make that a reality. But I came into the summer being like, “It would be great if I finished this grant report before I went on vacation.” But as the date’s getting closer, I think I go on vacation in about six weeks. I don't feel like I'm actually going to achieve that goal already.
I had, for instance, I did a data collection interview with some faculty and afterwards I had some follow-up items with one faculty in particular. I didn't get through all the questions in the time I had scheduled. And so I was like, “Okay, I'll follow-up with you doing a Google form or something just to fill out the remainder of the questions because I can get them from you in more of a yes no format.” And I think that was two or three weeks ago and I just didn't add it to Asana, I haven't done it. I randomly [inaudible] think about it or will write it down that I want to do it. Yeah.
Marissa: Okay, so let's pause there for a second. Let me just get some clarity. You have your vacation in six weeks, is that right?
Female: Yes.
Marissa: Okay. And when you say you want the report finished, what does that mean, the draft is finished, it's submitted? Define that for me.
Female: I want to have the draft finished.
Marissa: Okay. And let's get a little more specific. Does that mean everything's filled out and when you get back, you can review it? Let's just get clear for you, so you have an understanding, this is where I want to go, this is where I want to get to.
Female: Yeah, that's a great question. So I want to have, okay, I guess in my mind, I don't know if it's possible for me to have 100% of the draft finished, but I want 80% of the forms filled out by the time I go. And those 80% I could share with a colleague to review while I'm out on vacation.
Marissa: And 80% filled out on a scale of one to ten, ten being I 100% believe that's possible by the time I go on vacation and one being that's impossible. Where do you fall on believing you can get 80% done in six weeks?
Female: I mean, I want to say 100%, but part of me is the way that you're working right now, that's not going to happen. So I'm feeling like a five, right in the middle.
Marissa: Okay, so you gave one specific example about following up with the faculty to get more information. We can come back to that, but real quick, I just want to check in on a more macro level. Tell me the reasons why you feel like either you're struggling with it and working on the report, or you feel like it's not possible to get everything done you want to get done?
Female: I’m thinking that it's not possible because I haven't been prioritizing a series of tasks I would want/need to get started. For instance I need to send out a survey to people who have benefited from the grant. And I will probably need to give them four weeks to respond and then I need to edit the survey. And so in my mind I'm kind of like I'm running up against my timeline to be able to do that. I don't know if I'm answering the question. What was the question again?
Marissa: That's okay. Let me ask you which direction you want to take this, because we have two options here. We can look back kind of retrospectively over why you haven't done some of the tasks you plan to and just get more information from that. Or we can just look prospectively and look forward of what you do want to get done next and kind of set you up for doing it differently. It's different sides of the same coin, but it's just whatever you prefer.
Female: Maybe prospectively, I think I'm afraid I'm not going to finish it a week before I'm going on vacation. I'm doing a full week project management training. And so in my mind, I'm like, I don't even actually have six weeks. I only have five weeks to do it. And on top of this, I'm overseeing and managing four other projects.
Marissa: Okay, I'm going to pause you. So I just want to show you what your brain's doing. I just want you to notice that every chance your brain gets, it's pulling up any and every reason to not believe this is possible.
Female: Yeah, exactly. And then I don't work on it.
Marissa: So your brain’s like any chance it gets it's like, well, we have this training. It will take four weeks to do the survey and then I have to do this, well this. Just notice that your brain is spending a lot of time trying to pull that evidence forward to really make you doubt your ability to get this done.
Female: Yeah. And as I'm getting closer to the date, each week it feels like that's growing because I haven't worked on it. And then I'm getting closer to it and I'm feeling more pressure, definitely only right now seem to be thinking that it's not possible.
Marissa: Yeah, your brain is like a detective that's like, let me find all the evidence we don't have time, let me show it to you. When that happens, when you start to think about those things, how do you feel?
Female: I feel stressed and overwhelmed. I feel frustrated. I feel shame. Definitely shame comes up, yeah.
Marissa: Let's separate a few things here, because those are probably coming from different pieces. If we were just zooming in on the moments where your brain, basically what your brain’s saying is, we don't have time. Every time it says, “Well, I have that training for the week before or the survey is going to take four weeks.” Essentially it's the same version of, we don't have enough time. So let's just focus on that. When that comes up, what's the emotion?
Female: Anxiety.
Marissa: Okay. And when you're feeling anxious, then what happens, how do you show up? What do you do?
Female: I don't do my work or I don't work on the goal or the project is maybe better.
Marissa: Work on something else?
Female: I work on something else. That's when I find myself being like, “Oh, well, let me get to those emails that I haven't responded to, these small tasks that I've been putting, all of a sudden I've felt myself having energy to do that or motivation to do that. I will sometimes get drawn to doing chores around the house or I'm like, “Now is a great time to make myself a snack or eat or take a walk.” Which it's not any of those things are bad, but I leave when the anxiety comes up.
Marissa: Yeah. And it's not about good or bad, right or wrong. It's just having an understanding of what's happening. So let me just ask you this. When you start to do those emails, and maybe not but I've seen this with other folks, so I just want to check in if this is the case here, where I feel anxious, part of your brain’s like, let's go feel productive and a little accomplished, send these emails to kind of avoid not feeling good about not doing the thing we're supposed to be doing.
Female: Yes, definitely. I've had days over the past couple of weeks where I feel extra shitty because I didn't work on my project and I didn't do these small little tasks. But the days where I am, yeah, more productive by doing these other things. I'll end my day being like, “Well, maybe I didn't work on the grant report, but I got through my emails and I’ve caught up on them so I did a good job.”
Marissa: Okay. And again this is more about seeing what's happening. It's not a bad thing you did your emails or went on a walk. And it’s just, okay, here's what we know, any time your brain gives you a thought about we don't have enough time. You feel anxious and then you want to avoid that anxiety by not working on the task and you find something else to do.
Female: Yeah. I mean in the email follow-up with the faculty member where I was collecting data in my mind, it's going to be so much effort to try to put together the email to follow up to get the information I need. In the moment when I was like, “I'll just follow up with an email”, it really didn't have the same feeling as when I got off the Zoom call and kind of now have realized that I've been putting it off and it feels like a bigger task.
Marissa: Okay, yeah. I mean part of this is that kind of happens with our brain. We feel anxious and then our brain kind of becomes a drama queen and blows it up. And it feels more overwhelming and this is going to take so long. So that's happening. You're not doing the thing you scheduled or planned to do for the report. Instead you're doing something else, you're distracting yourself. And then your brain's kind of amping up the drama and like, oh, my gosh, it's going to be so much. It's going to take so long. What aren't you doing when that's happening?
Female: I mean, I'm not reminding myself that I do have time to work on it.
Marissa: Okay. You're not finding the evidence that you do have time, you can't make it happen?
Female: Yeah. I'm not reminding myself that I've done this grant report before and I know what I'm doing.
Marissa: So part of it's like you're not being the lawyer for the other side of the courtroom. You're not finding evidence you do have time. You're not finding proof you've done it before successfully. You're just letting the side of your brain that's trying to prove that you don't have time and doubt yourself and feel shame. You're letting them take up all the space in the courtroom.
Female: Yeah. And I'm not allowing the anxiety to be there. I'm trying to get rid of the anxiety to then do my work. Yeah, I’m not willing to just sit there and be anxious and do it. It feels like it's coming out of my fingers.
Marissa: So waiting for the anxiety to go away before you start rather than just, I'm going to work on this even with the anxiety?
Female: Yeah, exactly. Waiting for it to go or actively trying to get it to go away by doing things that distract me.
Marissa: Okay. And then you said this earlier, so I want to check in if this is accurate, but what I heard you say earlier is then you start to feel shame about yourself.
Female: Yeah. I mean, I think there's a voice in my head that's like, of course you're not doing what you said you would do. You're not really going to reach your goal.
Marissa: Okay. So your brain almost starts to use it against you?
Female: Yeah, definitely. And then whatever I am doing afterwards, it's like a domino effect, then I'll feel guilty, especially if I'm doing something not related to work. If I think that I should be working, but I'm not then I'll feel guilty, so yeah.
Marissa: Okay. So here's what I'm seeing, I'm just going to share it with you and you tell me if this lands, if not, we can talk about it. But when your brain brings up any thoughts related to time, basically it's finding evidence that you don't have time and then you feel anxious. You don't end up working on the grant report. you find something else to do to distract yourself. Sometimes it's chores, sometimes it's emails to feel a little productive, a little boost to that dopamine.
Then your brain sometimes makes the grant report task seem so dramatic and take so much time. And you don't actively look for other evidence that you do have time, you can figure it out, the proof you've done it before. You kind of wait for the anxiety to leave before you start working on it, which doesn't happen and then your brain starts using all this against you to be like, “See, you're not going to get the report done. See you don't have time.”
Female: Yes, that all lands.
Marissa; Okay. So here's the cumulative outcome I see from this pattern or cycle you're stuck in. One, you actually end up creating more evidence, you're not going to have time because each day that passes where you let that part of your brain take over and say you don't have time, you're just proving that thought true. It's not true necessarily because it just is by universal standards, you're creating the truth of it because every day you feel anxious you don't do the work.
Versus doing the work, even if you feel a little anxious and then slowly but surely getting some of the work done and using the time you do have.
Female: Yeah, I mean that definitely resonates. And then my brain jumps to you know what to do, just do it.
Marissa: Okay. But let's pause because that's a little bit of that using it against yourself piece.
Female: Yeah, the using it against myself piece is loud and I think I've had this pattern for a long time. I remember it even in middle school and just really identifying with the procrastinator type approach to doing work. And so yeah, it feels true. And then my brain says, “This is easy and you're making it hard”, but in a judgmental way.
Marissa: Okay. There's kind of two pieces, separate pieces here but they overlap. One is the anxiety piece, feeling anxious about the time you have and what comes with that is avoiding doing the work, avoiding the anxiety. Then the other piece is the shame related piece where you start to use what's happening against yourself and kind of judging yourself and your brain's putting you down.
Female: Yeah. I try to motivate myself by doing that second piece, but then I just kind of feel worse, no matter what I’m doing.
Marissa: Yeah, it doesn't work, that shame based ‘motivation’ doesn't actually work for most people.
Female: Yeah, I mean it’s definitely not working for me because the results you said are true. I am making it true. So far I haven't provided any evidence that I am going to finish this report by the deadline.
Marissa: Yeah, right. But then this shame piece creeps in and what we know about shame is it shuts us down, it makes things even harder.
Female: Yeah, definitely. It makes me not want to work on it.
Marissa: Yeah. So I think that's the first piece is addressing that shame and taking that down because that's going to make it a lot easier to then work on doing the work even if you feel anxious, letting anxiety come on the ride. So you can start to build evidence that you are going to get it done, that you are moving forward, that you are using your time.
Female: Yeah. So, data collection, I've started it earlier than when I did last year but my brain isn't having that count as getting closer to completing the grant report on time. I think the other thing my brain is doing is it's like, okay, well, even though you have a goal to have it done before you go on vacation, you don't have to have it done by that point. We could move the deadline, which I'm kind of resisting because I kind of set myself up to prove that I can do it. So then it becomes this whole thing about me and then that's where the shame gets roped in.
Marissa: Yeah. How do you feel when your brain offers you that option of well, we don't have to, we can push the deadline?
Female: I'm resistant to it. Last week I spent a couple of days doing strategic planning work for the upcoming year and I was like, well, I can move it, but it would be a lot. I imagined my future self would be happy that I finished it earlier.
Marissa: Okay. But let me check-in, what does resistance mean when you say you resist it?
Female: For me it means it wouldn't feel as good if I moved it. I imagine myself being stressed and being like, “I wish that I finished this before I went on vacation. I wish I had worked on this more before.”
Marissa: I want to just check in, I could be off but is part of that resistance the fear that your future self will be using pushing the deadline against you kind of like you're already doing? That could be off, so you tell me.
Female: Wait, but what do you mean, how I'm already doing?
Marissa: Okay. So right now when you don't work on part of the grant report you planned to then later on your brain is kind of a jerk to you, it's like, “See, you're never going to make the goal.” It kind of puts you down, which all of our brains do. With thinking bigger picture, okay, moving the deadline as a whole and you experience some resistance, is any of that related to maybe in the future if I do that my brain will be like, “See, you can't ever make a goal and stick to it”, and kind of put you down around moving the deadline overall?
Female: I think so, yeah. I'm afraid if I move the deadline, then I just won't work on it. And then yeah, exactly, my future self will be like, oh, no, now I have to work on this whole grant report while also doing these other events that I was already aware of. Because in the strategic planning process I got a better idea of kind of what the future months are going to be looking like in fall. And so I'm like, “Okay, well, it would be ideal if I finished this grant report earlier rather than the actual deadline.”
Marissa: Okay. So I want to kind of give you a visual to show you what I'm seeing because you've kind of got yourself stuck in a box basically. Because when you look towards the present moment and your shame brain kicks in, you shut down from doing work and using your time to work on a grant report. But when you look forward and you think, well, I could move it. Your brain puts up a wall and is like, “No, it's going to be a lot of work. That's going to be really stressful.”
And kind of puts up a wall either direction so you can't turn either direction and make a decision and do something about it.
Female: Yeah, I mean even talking about moving it, I'm like, “No, I don't want to move the date, I want to stick to it.” So yeah, I do feel duck because having it the date remain the same then I am experiencing the shame and the anxiety and fear.
Marissa: And listen, I'm not saying you should or shouldn't move it. That's totally your choice. I just want to show you what your brain’s doing. Your brain is keeping you stuck, almost paralyzed where you're at, kind of spinning your wheels and not using your time. Because when you think about the present moment and the actions you're taking, you start to feel shame and that shuts you down. And then when you think about the options in the future, you start to feel some fear, your brain starts freaking out about stress and what you should or shouldn't do and it shuts you down.
Female: Yeah, the whole thing just is very unpleasant.
Marissa: Yeah, and it's keeping you stuck. And both ways, you're not believing it's possible. You're not believing it's possible you can get it done before the deadline. You're also not believing it's possible you could move the deadline and not be super stressed out, working on it a little later with the other stuff you'll have going on.
Female: Yeah, that really resonates. Yeah, it feels shitty no matter what. I mean, yeah, I don't have to necessarily decide right now if I am moving the deadline or not but there is something I'm feeling in myself. I'm like, no, I want to make the deadline. I want to finish it before I go on vacation. But I'm realizing I'm making it mean something about myself, if I get it done or not.
Marissa: And what is that, that you’d make it mean about yourself?
Female: That I am reliable and trustworthy, and I would say mainly those two things. I mean I think I want it to be like I'm changing, I'm breaking this pattern and yeah, I can do what I say that I'm going to do.
Marissa: Okay. Yeah. Part of this is you want to use your goal to prove the shame wrong. That doesn't really help you though because then you become in battle with the shame. And the shame is just shutting you down.
Female: So then what do I do?
Marissa: Okay. Just stay with me. I don't want to rush to what I do now, but just stay with me and just sit in this awareness for a second. If the reason why you want to achieve that goal is basically to prove you're reliable, to prove you're good at your job, basically saying to prove my shame brain wrong. Then you're going to experience resistance all along the way.
That's very different from, I want to meet this deadline so I feel like it's done before my vacation or because my colleague needs time to review it or whatever else. That's very different than I'm going to use this goal to prove something about my value and worth.
Female: Yeah. I don't think I realized how much I was making it mean that, but this all feels very true, it's resonating a lot.
Marissa: Yeah. And then when that's happening, you're not even recognizing the ways you already have grown. Like you said earlier, you've started the data collection earlier than last year. That's a piece of evidence of, hey, look how much I've grown in this position, in my ability to get work done. But your brain is completely ignoring that because it's become a battle against the shame.
Female: Yeah, I'm dueling the shame.
Marissa: What would be different, let's just imagine, you still have some anxiety about the time, but you don't have the shame, that shame's all gone and instead you have compassion for yourself, what would be different?
Female: Compassion for myself and that I don't…
Marissa: Your brain’s like, “What's compassion for myself, I cannot compute.”
Female: Well, I guess, yeah, no, it is shutting down. It's like, what does that even mean? That I wouldn't be fixated on if I'm reliable or trustworthy, that type of compassion.
Marissa: You wouldn’t be judging yourself. You wouldn’t be beating yourself up for not doing as much as you had hoped. You wouldn’t be using it against yourself. You'd have compassion. You'd have understanding. You'd give yourself grace. You wouldn’t put so much pressure on yourself. The anxiety would maybe still be there, the worry about time might still be there. But what would be different if you were experiencing that without the shame, without the judgment, without putting so much pressure on yourself?
Female: I think my work days would be filled with more ease. I think even as I've been getting closer to my somewhat arbitrary deadline, I have been waking up experiencing anxiety too. Thinking, am I going to work on the grant report today? And, yeah, I guess a stress shame cocktail is waiting for me when I am starting my workday or my mornings. So maybe that wouldn't be there. I mean, it definitely wouldn't be there if I had compassion instead.
I think I would be better at taking care of myself when the anxiety did come up around time. Even if I was having time anxiety, I imagine I'd be able to self-soothe in ways that still help me get towards my goal but it wouldn't be such a big roadblock. And I mean I think it just would be a better overall experience doing my work.
Marissa: Do you think if the shame wasn't there you'd be able to start doing some of the work even if you experience some anxiety around time?
Female: I want to say yes, I guess I'm talking about it, realizing how much the little voice in my head is like, “You know you still wouldn't even do it.”
Marissa: That's the shame voice. Let's pause. because that, what you just said is the shame voice. That is the voice we're talking about. If that wasn't there, if those shame based thoughts weren't there telling you, “See you can't do it. See, you'll never be able to do it. That's not possible, you're not reliable.” If I had a magic wand and those were all gone, then what, even if the anxiety was around, would you be able to move forward a little bit with the work?
Female: Yeah, I don't really see why I wouldn't. I do have time to work on it when I look at my calendar. So yes, I mean my brain right now has a lot of reasons why I wouldn't. But I think are just trying to distract me from this. It's like, well, then you would need to calendar all your stuff and follow up, but yeah, no, I would be able to work on it.
Marissa: Yeah. I think the biggest piece here is that little voice of self-judgment and trying to use this goal to prove something about yourself. And so then when you're not working on the goal like you had hoped, then you're using that against yourself to say, “See, something's wrong with you. See, you can't achieve your goals. See, you're not reliable.”
Female: Yeah, it's not a fun thought pattern, that's for sure.
Marissa: What's a goal outside of work? Maybe you have a little anxiety, but you don't have all the self-judgment if you don't work on it or you're not as far as you thought, that shame piece isn't there?
Female: I mean something silly is I'm working on a puzzle right now.
Marissa: Perfect example.
Female: Yeah, it's kind of just all over the place. And I wanted to have it done by now, but I haven't. And I don't really have many thoughts about it. I even think it's fun to work on it still.
Marissa: Okay. So what's the difference between the puzzle example and the grant report? Because both of them have goals around timeline and getting it done. Both of them you're behind, but the grant one you have so much judgment and the puzzle one you don't. What's the difference, why is there judgment in one and not the other?
Female: Well, the grant one to me, this is responsible for how my team is evaluated. And I guess in my mind, we could either have problems that could come up from this grant report if it's not done correctly or submitted on time. That can have long lasting impacts where I don't think if I don't do the puzzle correctly that it would impact other people, number one, and number two, yeah, could it impact funding maybe too?
Marissa: Okay. You're putting so much pressure on yourself.
Female: Yeah, I don't know, I guess in my mind, it's just that's the way my colleagues talk about the grant report that it's this big thing too.
Marissa: Okay but wait. We're not saying it's not a big thing, it doesn't matter, don't do it. But there's a big difference between being this is important, I want to give it time. And it's all on me and if anything goes wrong, I’ve fucked everyone. And then on top of it, your brain is wanting to use that to prove something about yourself, whether you're reliable, you're good enough, whatever it is.
I'll move it to the puzzle. This is what it would be like if you were having this thought pattern with the puzzle, because I haven't gotten the puzzle done it means I'm not reliable. I can't achieve any goal. I should never set goals because I set this goal for the puzzle and I haven't gotten it done. And since I haven't gotten it done, it's all over the table. And it's messed up my whole home life with my partner.
Female: It is all over the table but it hasn't messed up my home life with my partner.
Marissa: But just see the different way of thinking. And this is actually a great illustration, the puzzle because yes, the grant report obviously is important to you and it's a part of your job. We're not saying it's not. But I just want to show you how much pressure you're putting on yourself, and then you're adding shame on top of it. And what we know is that's not working to help you, that's not serving you. That's shutting you down and preventing you from using your time and working on it.
Female: Yeah, definitely. And yeah, with the puzzle, it's sometimes I work on it for an extended amount of time and then today even I just put one or two puzzle pieces together and was like, “That's good.”
Marissa: Okay, what if that happened with the grant report, what if you had some days where you could work on it, you end up working on it for extended and some days you only do one thing and you still feel good, you still feel proud about it, you're not putting yourself down or catastrophizing or putting so much pressure. What would be different if that's how you approached the grant report?
Female: No, it just wouldn't be a big thing. It would just be something that I do. And I mean, I think that's probably why I'm able to enjoy the puzzle, putting it together because there isn't all of that pressure to do it. So I mean, I do, but I mean and the bigger goal is that I do want to make it so that I can enjoy my work. And I'm realizing okay, well, there's going to be some things that maybe I don't love but I do want to have that experience we just talked about of doing my work and being neutral about it or proud, but it not having to do with me as a person.
Marissa: Yeah. And that's back to the box your brain's getting you stuck in because any opportunity you have to relieve that pressure, you're not giving yourself that in the moment. You're not relieving the pressure because you're shaming yourself. And then looking forward when you're like, “I could move the deadline. I don't have to, but I could.” And that could relieve some pressure, you're not allowing yourself really that option.
Female: No, my brain still is, I mean I'm willing to chew on it because I don't want to put myself in the box, but yeah, there is definitely, I caved myself in.
Marissa: Yeah. Just think about it, I don't know if you fill up your tire too much and you have to relieve some of the air, the pressure in your tire. How much easier it is to drive versus driving with a tire that has too much pressure in, it’s about the pop. And you’re going to end up on the side of the freeway versus we're leaving some of the pressure. It's easier to drive. You don't have to be as scared. You don’t have to drive as slow. You can be more present.
Female: I mean, even in my body, if I can breathe a little easier, imagining that, taking the pressure off.
Marisa: Yeah. So here's the thing I want you to walk away with. It's not really even about the grant report or the timeline. Your brain is trying to get you to think that and we're socialized to think that. But actually what's creating a lot of your struggle here is you're putting so much pressure on yourself. That's why when we're talking about relieving it, you feel that already in your body. Without the grant report timeline changing or what you have to do changing, just imagining relieving some of the pressure.
Female: So then should I just observe that or yeah, I don't know? I mean one of my biggest thoughts coming up, yeah, is that I don't have enough time, but then there's all this underneath.
Marissa: And so what?
Female: I guess then how do I relieve the pressure? I think I'll probably just let the thoughts come and go. My brain's just throwing a little tantrum like, I don't know how to do that.
Marissa: You don't have to know the how right in this second. Your brain wants to rush to the how. You don't have to. You just learned five seconds ago the real problem here is that you're putting so much pressure on yourself. It's like if I was a teacher teaching algebra and you're like, “Well, how do I know how to do trigonometry?” It's like, okay, you just learned algebra five seconds ago. The only reason you feel pressure with that how is because of those thoughts your brain brings up around the time and creating anxiety. This is kind of the paradox is you are in control of your time.
Female: Yeah, I am.
Marissa: Yeah. And you have the option to move the deadline. You have that space. I’m not saying you should. You have space to spend a day or two just sitting in the realization that actually what’s causing a lot of your suffering and preventing you from moving forward is just you're putting so much pressure on yourself.
Female: Yeah, that's a good point. I have time this week, yeah, to chew on this and assess. I also think the way it started off too, I don't necessarily have even a clear goal on what I'm doing. So I think I can explore what makes sense and write out a clear goal for myself if I am going to keep that same deadline or yeah, even consider moving it.
Marissa: I just want to show you, already in the past couple of minutes you've thought of things you can do to move forward. I can let the thoughts come and go. I can get more clear about my goal and what I'm going to do. You thought of those, as you sit in this awareness, more things will come up, more ideas of how to move forward, that come from within you, not anyone or anything external. And you're already doing that right now. There's no worry about the how, you don't need to worry about that, you're already thinking of things that will help you move forward.
Female: Yeah, that's a really good point. I can do it.
Marissa: Yeah, you definitely can.
Okay. So that wraps up this live coaching call. I want you to walk away thinking about the aha moment you had listening, about your brain, about something you're struggling with, the shifts that you made just listening from the call. And then also allow this coaching to marinade for the next 24 hours, even 48. You will notice you'll start consciously or not, continually thinking about the coaching and making connections in your brain about the challenges you're facing and building deeper awareness that will help you move forward, be more empowered, find solutions and answers that best support you.
Now, if you found this helpful, or if you've been wanting to join the Not Your Average Productivity course but have been holding back because you weren't sure about the coaching component. But now you have an understanding of what it would be like and you are ready to join. You only have a couple more days if you're listening to this episode when it comes out. So we close the registration August 3rd. I want you to head to mckoolcoaching.com/courses. We'll also leave a link in the show notes and sign up.
You will get three coaching sessions just like this. And just like in this call, you get to decide what we coach on. We coach on whatever you would find most helpful. And then you'll get weekly video lessons that walk you through overwhelm, motivation, productivity, personal goals and rest as well as a few implementation worksheets. So head on over to mckoolcoaching.com/courses and grab your spot now. Registration closes August 3rd and we have limited spots. Alright, see you there.
If you found this episode helpful then you have to check out my coaching program where I provide you individualized support to create a life centered around rest. Head on over to mckoolcoaching.com, that’s M-C-K-O-O-L coaching.com to learn more.
Hello, everyone. We have a very special episode for you today. I've never done this on the podcast. I am sharing with you a live coaching call. Well, actually a recorded coaching call but it happened live with one of my former clients and I'm sharing this with you on the podcast for a couple of reasons. Number one. I know so many of you don't really understand what coaching is like, what to expect and I get that, that was me too.
So sharing this live coaching call will help you get a better understanding of what being in a coaching session is like so you can decide if you want to join the course that's open right now, Not Your Average Productivity course, which actually closes registration August 3rd, so this week. This will give you an idea of what coaching is like. Because one of the components of that course you get access to is one-on-one coaching, which is actually one of the most powerful components of that course.
And I want to make sure you have an understanding of what to expect for those coaching calls before deciding to sign up. Because coaching is pretty different than therapy in a lot of ways. And the type of coaching I do is very different from coaching some of you may have through a career counselor or an executive coach. And I'll talk more about that in a second.
But the second reason I'm sharing this episode is because actually you would be shocked at how much you can get out of listening to someone else get coached. It's almost like you're getting coached through osmosis. Actually, in a lot of the programs I'm in as a client, I watch a lot of other people get coached. And that's where I've seen a lot of my own growth because as they're getting coached, I'm gaining so many insights. I'm having so many aha moments. I'm learning. I'm resolving challenges.
I'm creating awareness for myself even though they're the ones getting coached. Because when I'm listening, I'm able to connect the dots. I'm able to see what I'm struggling with and how the coaching can apply to me. So that brings me to the second point I want to share before we get into the coaching call, which is how to listen to this episode. Because for a lot of folks in public health and again, this was me too, we are used to being the helper. We are used to being the person that everyone comes to for advice or guidance.
I do not want you to listen to this episode with that hat on. I don't want you to listen to my client and think about what you would tell them, what you think they should do for a couple of reasons. Number one, that's not what coaching is about. What you'll notice on the call is I never tell her what she should do. And number two, that's not going to help you benefit and get your own coaching through listening. As you listen, I want you to notice how the coaching I'm giving applies to you.
I want you to notice how the questions bring up insights for you about what you're struggling with. Now, in this call we talk about her challenge with falling behind on meeting a deadline. You might not have that specific problem, that's okay, you can still get so much out of this. There's so many coaching calls where someone might be getting coached on their dating challenges and actually ends up helping me in my business. Or there are calls I'll see where someone’s getting coaching on dealing with a difficult boss and it helps me in my relationship with someone in my family.
So it doesn't have to be topic specific to what you're struggling with to benefit from the questions I'm asking, the insights I'm bringing and the coaching overall. So don't let that put a barrier for you. If you don't relate completely to her experience, that's okay, you can still get so much out of it. As I said earlier, the type of coaching I do, I do not tell you what to do. So in the call, what you will notice is a lot of the time I'm not only asking prompting questions, but I'm showing her, her brain, the patterns of her brain. And I'm prompting deeper awareness for her.
And as you listen, you will start noticing patterns in your brain and building deeper awareness in you. And that's how these coaching calls go. So if you're interested in the Not Your Average Productivity course, but you're really looking for a coach to tell you exactly what to do, then I'm not the coach for you. But if you listen to this episode and you get a lot out of it, you build curiosity, you build awareness, you make some connections you didn't realize before. Then I am the coach for you.
So last thing before we get into the episode. As you'll notice, there's no personal identifying information in this episode. We don't talk specifics about where she works, we don't give her name, anything like that. This episode is being aired with her full consent. I have her full consent to share this out. But I'm not sharing the personal identifying information for a lot of reasons, but one of which is I want you to focus on what you're going to get out of this episode and how this coaching helps you and applies to you and less about this client and who they are.
So I know for many of you, this is going to be a brand new experience. I really encourage you to listen to the whole episode. I know it's a bit longer than most weeks, but you will get the most benefit if you listen to the call from the start to the finish rather than listen for a little bit and then never come back to it. So without further ado, let's get into the coaching call.
Marissa: Okay, tell me what you want coaching on today.
Female: I have a grant report that I want to work on and ideally have the majority of it finished before I go on vacation in August. And I haven't set up a plan to make that a reality. But I came into the summer being like, “It would be great if I finished this grant report before I went on vacation.” But as the date’s getting closer, I think I go on vacation in about six weeks. I don't feel like I'm actually going to achieve that goal already.
I had, for instance, I did a data collection interview with some faculty and afterwards I had some follow-up items with one faculty in particular. I didn't get through all the questions in the time I had scheduled. And so I was like, “Okay, I'll follow-up with you doing a Google form or something just to fill out the remainder of the questions because I can get them from you in more of a yes no format.” And I think that was two or three weeks ago and I just didn't add it to Asana, I haven't done it. I randomly [inaudible] think about it or will write it down that I want to do it. Yeah.
Marissa: Okay, so let's pause there for a second. Let me just get some clarity. You have your vacation in six weeks, is that right?
Female: Yes.
Marissa: Okay. And when you say you want the report finished, what does that mean, the draft is finished, it's submitted? Define that for me.
Female: I want to have the draft finished.
Marissa: Okay. And let's get a little more specific. Does that mean everything's filled out and when you get back, you can review it? Let's just get clear for you, so you have an understanding, this is where I want to go, this is where I want to get to.
Female: Yeah, that's a great question. So I want to have, okay, I guess in my mind, I don't know if it's possible for me to have 100% of the draft finished, but I want 80% of the forms filled out by the time I go. And those 80% I could share with a colleague to review while I'm out on vacation.
Marissa: And 80% filled out on a scale of one to ten, ten being I 100% believe that's possible by the time I go on vacation and one being that's impossible. Where do you fall on believing you can get 80% done in six weeks?
Female: I mean, I want to say 100%, but part of me is the way that you're working right now, that's not going to happen. So I'm feeling like a five, right in the middle.
Marissa: Okay, so you gave one specific example about following up with the faculty to get more information. We can come back to that, but real quick, I just want to check in on a more macro level. Tell me the reasons why you feel like either you're struggling with it and working on the report, or you feel like it's not possible to get everything done you want to get done?
Female: I’m thinking that it's not possible because I haven't been prioritizing a series of tasks I would want/need to get started. For instance I need to send out a survey to people who have benefited from the grant. And I will probably need to give them four weeks to respond and then I need to edit the survey. And so in my mind I'm kind of like I'm running up against my timeline to be able to do that. I don't know if I'm answering the question. What was the question again?
Marissa: That's okay. Let me ask you which direction you want to take this, because we have two options here. We can look back kind of retrospectively over why you haven't done some of the tasks you plan to and just get more information from that. Or we can just look prospectively and look forward of what you do want to get done next and kind of set you up for doing it differently. It's different sides of the same coin, but it's just whatever you prefer.
Female: Maybe prospectively, I think I'm afraid I'm not going to finish it a week before I'm going on vacation. I'm doing a full week project management training. And so in my mind, I'm like, I don't even actually have six weeks. I only have five weeks to do it. And on top of this, I'm overseeing and managing four other projects.
Marissa: Okay, I'm going to pause you. So I just want to show you what your brain's doing. I just want you to notice that every chance your brain gets, it's pulling up any and every reason to not believe this is possible.
Female: Yeah, exactly. And then I don't work on it.
Marissa: So your brain’s like any chance it gets it's like, well, we have this training. It will take four weeks to do the survey and then I have to do this, well this. Just notice that your brain is spending a lot of time trying to pull that evidence forward to really make you doubt your ability to get this done.
Female: Yeah. And as I'm getting closer to the date, each week it feels like that's growing because I haven't worked on it. And then I'm getting closer to it and I'm feeling more pressure, definitely only right now seem to be thinking that it's not possible.
Marissa: Yeah, your brain is like a detective that's like, let me find all the evidence we don't have time, let me show it to you. When that happens, when you start to think about those things, how do you feel?
Female: I feel stressed and overwhelmed. I feel frustrated. I feel shame. Definitely shame comes up, yeah.
Marissa: Let's separate a few things here, because those are probably coming from different pieces. If we were just zooming in on the moments where your brain, basically what your brain’s saying is, we don't have time. Every time it says, “Well, I have that training for the week before or the survey is going to take four weeks.” Essentially it's the same version of, we don't have enough time. So let's just focus on that. When that comes up, what's the emotion?
Female: Anxiety.
Marissa: Okay. And when you're feeling anxious, then what happens, how do you show up? What do you do?
Female: I don't do my work or I don't work on the goal or the project is maybe better.
Marissa: Work on something else?
Female: I work on something else. That's when I find myself being like, “Oh, well, let me get to those emails that I haven't responded to, these small tasks that I've been putting, all of a sudden I've felt myself having energy to do that or motivation to do that. I will sometimes get drawn to doing chores around the house or I'm like, “Now is a great time to make myself a snack or eat or take a walk.” Which it's not any of those things are bad, but I leave when the anxiety comes up.
Marissa: Yeah. And it's not about good or bad, right or wrong. It's just having an understanding of what's happening. So let me just ask you this. When you start to do those emails, and maybe not but I've seen this with other folks, so I just want to check in if this is the case here, where I feel anxious, part of your brain’s like, let's go feel productive and a little accomplished, send these emails to kind of avoid not feeling good about not doing the thing we're supposed to be doing.
Female: Yes, definitely. I've had days over the past couple of weeks where I feel extra shitty because I didn't work on my project and I didn't do these small little tasks. But the days where I am, yeah, more productive by doing these other things. I'll end my day being like, “Well, maybe I didn't work on the grant report, but I got through my emails and I’ve caught up on them so I did a good job.”
Marissa: Okay. And again this is more about seeing what's happening. It's not a bad thing you did your emails or went on a walk. And it’s just, okay, here's what we know, any time your brain gives you a thought about we don't have enough time. You feel anxious and then you want to avoid that anxiety by not working on the task and you find something else to do.
Female: Yeah. I mean in the email follow-up with the faculty member where I was collecting data in my mind, it's going to be so much effort to try to put together the email to follow up to get the information I need. In the moment when I was like, “I'll just follow up with an email”, it really didn't have the same feeling as when I got off the Zoom call and kind of now have realized that I've been putting it off and it feels like a bigger task.
Marissa: Okay, yeah. I mean part of this is that kind of happens with our brain. We feel anxious and then our brain kind of becomes a drama queen and blows it up. And it feels more overwhelming and this is going to take so long. So that's happening. You're not doing the thing you scheduled or planned to do for the report. Instead you're doing something else, you're distracting yourself. And then your brain's kind of amping up the drama and like, oh, my gosh, it's going to be so much. It's going to take so long. What aren't you doing when that's happening?
Female: I mean, I'm not reminding myself that I do have time to work on it.
Marissa: Okay. You're not finding the evidence that you do have time, you can't make it happen?
Female: Yeah. I'm not reminding myself that I've done this grant report before and I know what I'm doing.
Marissa: So part of it's like you're not being the lawyer for the other side of the courtroom. You're not finding evidence you do have time. You're not finding proof you've done it before successfully. You're just letting the side of your brain that's trying to prove that you don't have time and doubt yourself and feel shame. You're letting them take up all the space in the courtroom.
Female: Yeah. And I'm not allowing the anxiety to be there. I'm trying to get rid of the anxiety to then do my work. Yeah, I’m not willing to just sit there and be anxious and do it. It feels like it's coming out of my fingers.
Marissa: So waiting for the anxiety to go away before you start rather than just, I'm going to work on this even with the anxiety?
Female: Yeah, exactly. Waiting for it to go or actively trying to get it to go away by doing things that distract me.
Marissa: Okay. And then you said this earlier, so I want to check in if this is accurate, but what I heard you say earlier is then you start to feel shame about yourself.
Female: Yeah. I mean, I think there's a voice in my head that's like, of course you're not doing what you said you would do. You're not really going to reach your goal.
Marissa: Okay. So your brain almost starts to use it against you?
Female: Yeah, definitely. And then whatever I am doing afterwards, it's like a domino effect, then I'll feel guilty, especially if I'm doing something not related to work. If I think that I should be working, but I'm not then I'll feel guilty, so yeah.
Marissa: Okay. So here's what I'm seeing, I'm just going to share it with you and you tell me if this lands, if not, we can talk about it. But when your brain brings up any thoughts related to time, basically it's finding evidence that you don't have time and then you feel anxious. You don't end up working on the grant report. you find something else to do to distract yourself. Sometimes it's chores, sometimes it's emails to feel a little productive, a little boost to that dopamine.
Then your brain sometimes makes the grant report task seem so dramatic and take so much time. And you don't actively look for other evidence that you do have time, you can figure it out, the proof you've done it before. You kind of wait for the anxiety to leave before you start working on it, which doesn't happen and then your brain starts using all this against you to be like, “See, you're not going to get the report done. See you don't have time.”
Female: Yes, that all lands.
Marissa; Okay. So here's the cumulative outcome I see from this pattern or cycle you're stuck in. One, you actually end up creating more evidence, you're not going to have time because each day that passes where you let that part of your brain take over and say you don't have time, you're just proving that thought true. It's not true necessarily because it just is by universal standards, you're creating the truth of it because every day you feel anxious you don't do the work.
Versus doing the work, even if you feel a little anxious and then slowly but surely getting some of the work done and using the time you do have.
Female: Yeah, I mean that definitely resonates. And then my brain jumps to you know what to do, just do it.
Marissa: Okay. But let's pause because that's a little bit of that using it against yourself piece.
Female: Yeah, the using it against myself piece is loud and I think I've had this pattern for a long time. I remember it even in middle school and just really identifying with the procrastinator type approach to doing work. And so yeah, it feels true. And then my brain says, “This is easy and you're making it hard”, but in a judgmental way.
Marissa: Okay. There's kind of two pieces, separate pieces here but they overlap. One is the anxiety piece, feeling anxious about the time you have and what comes with that is avoiding doing the work, avoiding the anxiety. Then the other piece is the shame related piece where you start to use what's happening against yourself and kind of judging yourself and your brain's putting you down.
Female: Yeah. I try to motivate myself by doing that second piece, but then I just kind of feel worse, no matter what I’m doing.
Marissa: Yeah, it doesn't work, that shame based ‘motivation’ doesn't actually work for most people.
Female: Yeah, I mean it’s definitely not working for me because the results you said are true. I am making it true. So far I haven't provided any evidence that I am going to finish this report by the deadline.
Marissa: Yeah, right. But then this shame piece creeps in and what we know about shame is it shuts us down, it makes things even harder.
Female: Yeah, definitely. It makes me not want to work on it.
Marissa: Yeah. So I think that's the first piece is addressing that shame and taking that down because that's going to make it a lot easier to then work on doing the work even if you feel anxious, letting anxiety come on the ride. So you can start to build evidence that you are going to get it done, that you are moving forward, that you are using your time.
Female: Yeah. So, data collection, I've started it earlier than when I did last year but my brain isn't having that count as getting closer to completing the grant report on time. I think the other thing my brain is doing is it's like, okay, well, even though you have a goal to have it done before you go on vacation, you don't have to have it done by that point. We could move the deadline, which I'm kind of resisting because I kind of set myself up to prove that I can do it. So then it becomes this whole thing about me and then that's where the shame gets roped in.
Marissa: Yeah. How do you feel when your brain offers you that option of well, we don't have to, we can push the deadline?
Female: I'm resistant to it. Last week I spent a couple of days doing strategic planning work for the upcoming year and I was like, well, I can move it, but it would be a lot. I imagined my future self would be happy that I finished it earlier.
Marissa: Okay. But let me check-in, what does resistance mean when you say you resist it?
Female: For me it means it wouldn't feel as good if I moved it. I imagine myself being stressed and being like, “I wish that I finished this before I went on vacation. I wish I had worked on this more before.”
Marissa: I want to just check in, I could be off but is part of that resistance the fear that your future self will be using pushing the deadline against you kind of like you're already doing? That could be off, so you tell me.
Female: Wait, but what do you mean, how I'm already doing?
Marissa: Okay. So right now when you don't work on part of the grant report you planned to then later on your brain is kind of a jerk to you, it's like, “See, you're never going to make the goal.” It kind of puts you down, which all of our brains do. With thinking bigger picture, okay, moving the deadline as a whole and you experience some resistance, is any of that related to maybe in the future if I do that my brain will be like, “See, you can't ever make a goal and stick to it”, and kind of put you down around moving the deadline overall?
Female: I think so, yeah. I'm afraid if I move the deadline, then I just won't work on it. And then yeah, exactly, my future self will be like, oh, no, now I have to work on this whole grant report while also doing these other events that I was already aware of. Because in the strategic planning process I got a better idea of kind of what the future months are going to be looking like in fall. And so I'm like, “Okay, well, it would be ideal if I finished this grant report earlier rather than the actual deadline.”
Marissa: Okay. So I want to kind of give you a visual to show you what I'm seeing because you've kind of got yourself stuck in a box basically. Because when you look towards the present moment and your shame brain kicks in, you shut down from doing work and using your time to work on a grant report. But when you look forward and you think, well, I could move it. Your brain puts up a wall and is like, “No, it's going to be a lot of work. That's going to be really stressful.”
And kind of puts up a wall either direction so you can't turn either direction and make a decision and do something about it.
Female: Yeah, I mean even talking about moving it, I'm like, “No, I don't want to move the date, I want to stick to it.” So yeah, I do feel duck because having it the date remain the same then I am experiencing the shame and the anxiety and fear.
Marissa: And listen, I'm not saying you should or shouldn't move it. That's totally your choice. I just want to show you what your brain’s doing. Your brain is keeping you stuck, almost paralyzed where you're at, kind of spinning your wheels and not using your time. Because when you think about the present moment and the actions you're taking, you start to feel shame and that shuts you down. And then when you think about the options in the future, you start to feel some fear, your brain starts freaking out about stress and what you should or shouldn't do and it shuts you down.
Female: Yeah, the whole thing just is very unpleasant.
Marissa: Yeah, and it's keeping you stuck. And both ways, you're not believing it's possible. You're not believing it's possible you can get it done before the deadline. You're also not believing it's possible you could move the deadline and not be super stressed out, working on it a little later with the other stuff you'll have going on.
Female: Yeah, that really resonates. Yeah, it feels shitty no matter what. I mean, yeah, I don't have to necessarily decide right now if I am moving the deadline or not but there is something I'm feeling in myself. I'm like, no, I want to make the deadline. I want to finish it before I go on vacation. But I'm realizing I'm making it mean something about myself, if I get it done or not.
Marissa: And what is that, that you’d make it mean about yourself?
Female: That I am reliable and trustworthy, and I would say mainly those two things. I mean I think I want it to be like I'm changing, I'm breaking this pattern and yeah, I can do what I say that I'm going to do.
Marissa: Okay. Yeah. Part of this is you want to use your goal to prove the shame wrong. That doesn't really help you though because then you become in battle with the shame. And the shame is just shutting you down.
Female: So then what do I do?
Marissa: Okay. Just stay with me. I don't want to rush to what I do now, but just stay with me and just sit in this awareness for a second. If the reason why you want to achieve that goal is basically to prove you're reliable, to prove you're good at your job, basically saying to prove my shame brain wrong. Then you're going to experience resistance all along the way.
That's very different from, I want to meet this deadline so I feel like it's done before my vacation or because my colleague needs time to review it or whatever else. That's very different than I'm going to use this goal to prove something about my value and worth.
Female: Yeah. I don't think I realized how much I was making it mean that, but this all feels very true, it's resonating a lot.
Marissa: Yeah. And then when that's happening, you're not even recognizing the ways you already have grown. Like you said earlier, you've started the data collection earlier than last year. That's a piece of evidence of, hey, look how much I've grown in this position, in my ability to get work done. But your brain is completely ignoring that because it's become a battle against the shame.
Female: Yeah, I'm dueling the shame.
Marissa: What would be different, let's just imagine, you still have some anxiety about the time, but you don't have the shame, that shame's all gone and instead you have compassion for yourself, what would be different?
Female: Compassion for myself and that I don't…
Marissa: Your brain’s like, “What's compassion for myself, I cannot compute.”
Female: Well, I guess, yeah, no, it is shutting down. It's like, what does that even mean? That I wouldn't be fixated on if I'm reliable or trustworthy, that type of compassion.
Marissa: You wouldn’t be judging yourself. You wouldn’t be beating yourself up for not doing as much as you had hoped. You wouldn’t be using it against yourself. You'd have compassion. You'd have understanding. You'd give yourself grace. You wouldn’t put so much pressure on yourself. The anxiety would maybe still be there, the worry about time might still be there. But what would be different if you were experiencing that without the shame, without the judgment, without putting so much pressure on yourself?
Female: I think my work days would be filled with more ease. I think even as I've been getting closer to my somewhat arbitrary deadline, I have been waking up experiencing anxiety too. Thinking, am I going to work on the grant report today? And, yeah, I guess a stress shame cocktail is waiting for me when I am starting my workday or my mornings. So maybe that wouldn't be there. I mean, it definitely wouldn't be there if I had compassion instead.
I think I would be better at taking care of myself when the anxiety did come up around time. Even if I was having time anxiety, I imagine I'd be able to self-soothe in ways that still help me get towards my goal but it wouldn't be such a big roadblock. And I mean I think it just would be a better overall experience doing my work.
Marissa: Do you think if the shame wasn't there you'd be able to start doing some of the work even if you experience some anxiety around time?
Female: I want to say yes, I guess I'm talking about it, realizing how much the little voice in my head is like, “You know you still wouldn't even do it.”
Marissa: That's the shame voice. Let's pause. because that, what you just said is the shame voice. That is the voice we're talking about. If that wasn't there, if those shame based thoughts weren't there telling you, “See you can't do it. See, you'll never be able to do it. That's not possible, you're not reliable.” If I had a magic wand and those were all gone, then what, even if the anxiety was around, would you be able to move forward a little bit with the work?
Female: Yeah, I don't really see why I wouldn't. I do have time to work on it when I look at my calendar. So yes, I mean my brain right now has a lot of reasons why I wouldn't. But I think are just trying to distract me from this. It's like, well, then you would need to calendar all your stuff and follow up, but yeah, no, I would be able to work on it.
Marissa: Yeah. I think the biggest piece here is that little voice of self-judgment and trying to use this goal to prove something about yourself. And so then when you're not working on the goal like you had hoped, then you're using that against yourself to say, “See, something's wrong with you. See, you can't achieve your goals. See, you're not reliable.”
Female: Yeah, it's not a fun thought pattern, that's for sure.
Marissa: What's a goal outside of work? Maybe you have a little anxiety, but you don't have all the self-judgment if you don't work on it or you're not as far as you thought, that shame piece isn't there?
Female: I mean something silly is I'm working on a puzzle right now.
Marissa: Perfect example.
Female: Yeah, it's kind of just all over the place. And I wanted to have it done by now, but I haven't. And I don't really have many thoughts about it. I even think it's fun to work on it still.
Marissa: Okay. So what's the difference between the puzzle example and the grant report? Because both of them have goals around timeline and getting it done. Both of them you're behind, but the grant one you have so much judgment and the puzzle one you don't. What's the difference, why is there judgment in one and not the other?
Female: Well, the grant one to me, this is responsible for how my team is evaluated. And I guess in my mind, we could either have problems that could come up from this grant report if it's not done correctly or submitted on time. That can have long lasting impacts where I don't think if I don't do the puzzle correctly that it would impact other people, number one, and number two, yeah, could it impact funding maybe too?
Marissa: Okay. You're putting so much pressure on yourself.
Female: Yeah, I don't know, I guess in my mind, it's just that's the way my colleagues talk about the grant report that it's this big thing too.
Marissa: Okay but wait. We're not saying it's not a big thing, it doesn't matter, don't do it. But there's a big difference between being this is important, I want to give it time. And it's all on me and if anything goes wrong, I’ve fucked everyone. And then on top of it, your brain is wanting to use that to prove something about yourself, whether you're reliable, you're good enough, whatever it is.
I'll move it to the puzzle. This is what it would be like if you were having this thought pattern with the puzzle, because I haven't gotten the puzzle done it means I'm not reliable. I can't achieve any goal. I should never set goals because I set this goal for the puzzle and I haven't gotten it done. And since I haven't gotten it done, it's all over the table. And it's messed up my whole home life with my partner.
Female: It is all over the table but it hasn't messed up my home life with my partner.
Marissa: But just see the different way of thinking. And this is actually a great illustration, the puzzle because yes, the grant report obviously is important to you and it's a part of your job. We're not saying it's not. But I just want to show you how much pressure you're putting on yourself, and then you're adding shame on top of it. And what we know is that's not working to help you, that's not serving you. That's shutting you down and preventing you from using your time and working on it.
Female: Yeah, definitely. And yeah, with the puzzle, it's sometimes I work on it for an extended amount of time and then today even I just put one or two puzzle pieces together and was like, “That's good.”
Marissa: Okay, what if that happened with the grant report, what if you had some days where you could work on it, you end up working on it for extended and some days you only do one thing and you still feel good, you still feel proud about it, you're not putting yourself down or catastrophizing or putting so much pressure. What would be different if that's how you approached the grant report?
Female: No, it just wouldn't be a big thing. It would just be something that I do. And I mean, I think that's probably why I'm able to enjoy the puzzle, putting it together because there isn't all of that pressure to do it. So I mean, I do, but I mean and the bigger goal is that I do want to make it so that I can enjoy my work. And I'm realizing okay, well, there's going to be some things that maybe I don't love but I do want to have that experience we just talked about of doing my work and being neutral about it or proud, but it not having to do with me as a person.
Marissa: Yeah. And that's back to the box your brain's getting you stuck in because any opportunity you have to relieve that pressure, you're not giving yourself that in the moment. You're not relieving the pressure because you're shaming yourself. And then looking forward when you're like, “I could move the deadline. I don't have to, but I could.” And that could relieve some pressure, you're not allowing yourself really that option.
Female: No, my brain still is, I mean I'm willing to chew on it because I don't want to put myself in the box, but yeah, there is definitely, I caved myself in.
Marissa: Yeah. Just think about it, I don't know if you fill up your tire too much and you have to relieve some of the air, the pressure in your tire. How much easier it is to drive versus driving with a tire that has too much pressure in, it’s about the pop. And you’re going to end up on the side of the freeway versus we're leaving some of the pressure. It's easier to drive. You don't have to be as scared. You don’t have to drive as slow. You can be more present.
Female: I mean, even in my body, if I can breathe a little easier, imagining that, taking the pressure off.
Marisa: Yeah. So here's the thing I want you to walk away with. It's not really even about the grant report or the timeline. Your brain is trying to get you to think that and we're socialized to think that. But actually what's creating a lot of your struggle here is you're putting so much pressure on yourself. That's why when we're talking about relieving it, you feel that already in your body. Without the grant report timeline changing or what you have to do changing, just imagining relieving some of the pressure.
Female: So then should I just observe that or yeah, I don't know? I mean one of my biggest thoughts coming up, yeah, is that I don't have enough time, but then there's all this underneath.
Marissa: And so what?
Female: I guess then how do I relieve the pressure? I think I'll probably just let the thoughts come and go. My brain's just throwing a little tantrum like, I don't know how to do that.
Marissa: You don't have to know the how right in this second. Your brain wants to rush to the how. You don't have to. You just learned five seconds ago the real problem here is that you're putting so much pressure on yourself. It's like if I was a teacher teaching algebra and you're like, “Well, how do I know how to do trigonometry?” It's like, okay, you just learned algebra five seconds ago. The only reason you feel pressure with that how is because of those thoughts your brain brings up around the time and creating anxiety. This is kind of the paradox is you are in control of your time.
Female: Yeah, I am.
Marissa: Yeah. And you have the option to move the deadline. You have that space. I’m not saying you should. You have space to spend a day or two just sitting in the realization that actually what’s causing a lot of your suffering and preventing you from moving forward is just you're putting so much pressure on yourself.
Female: Yeah, that's a good point. I have time this week, yeah, to chew on this and assess. I also think the way it started off too, I don't necessarily have even a clear goal on what I'm doing. So I think I can explore what makes sense and write out a clear goal for myself if I am going to keep that same deadline or yeah, even consider moving it.
Marissa: I just want to show you, already in the past couple of minutes you've thought of things you can do to move forward. I can let the thoughts come and go. I can get more clear about my goal and what I'm going to do. You thought of those, as you sit in this awareness, more things will come up, more ideas of how to move forward, that come from within you, not anyone or anything external. And you're already doing that right now. There's no worry about the how, you don't need to worry about that, you're already thinking of things that will help you move forward.
Female: Yeah, that's a really good point. I can do it.
Marissa: Yeah, you definitely can.
Okay. So that wraps up this live coaching call. I want you to walk away thinking about the aha moment you had listening, about your brain, about something you're struggling with, the shifts that you made just listening from the call. And then also allow this coaching to marinade for the next 24 hours, even 48. You will notice you'll start consciously or not, continually thinking about the coaching and making connections in your brain about the challenges you're facing and building deeper awareness that will help you move forward, be more empowered, find solutions and answers that best support you.
Now, if you found this helpful, or if you've been wanting to join the Not Your Average Productivity course but have been holding back because you weren't sure about the coaching component. But now you have an understanding of what it would be like and you are ready to join. You only have a couple more days if you're listening to this episode when it comes out. So we close the registration August 3rd. I want you to head to mckoolcoaching.com/courses. We'll also leave a link in the show notes and sign up.
You will get three coaching sessions just like this. And just like in this call, you get to decide what we coach on. We coach on whatever you would find most helpful. And then you'll get weekly video lessons that walk you through overwhelm, motivation, productivity, personal goals and rest as well as a few implementation worksheets. So head on over to mckoolcoaching.com/courses and grab your spot now. Registration closes August 3rd and we have limited spots. Alright, see you there.
If you found this episode helpful then you have to check out my coaching program where I provide you individualized support to create a life centered around rest. Head on over to mckoolcoaching.com, that’s M-C-K-O-O-L coaching.com to learn more.
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